POE Camera Cat6 Cable Distance?

[PCRC]

I am building a system for a customer. My first, so this has been painful.

The NVR is in the basement, along with pre-wired Cat6 cables going all over the home. The cables are not terminated (no RJ45 connectors attached). My job is to attach the RJ45 connectors, attach the cable to the NVR and Cameras and set up the video. I have an inexpensive cable checker that shows the connections between the two Cat6 ends.

I connected the first camera (in the basement to watch for flooding, short cable), scanned the S/N and it displays on the TV and IOS app.
I connected the second camera using a short cable, scanned the S/N and it displays video. I then connected RJ45 connectors to the Cat6 cable that will show the Driveway (from the basement to the driveway), verified the connection and connected the camera. No picture, will not connect. Using a short cable works, using the cable built into the home from the basement to the Garage - Driveway doesn't. I have an inexpensive Cat 5/6 cable checker that shows the 8 wires connected correctly but when I connect the camera I get nothing.
As I said if I use a short cable connecting the NVR to the POE camera in the basement it displays video.
I think there's a limit to the cable length, but I don't think I've hit that length. I hope not, this cable is the closest to the NVR and if it won't work the whole system will be useless.

I could use some help here. TIA
John

[Revo2Maxx]

Hello John and welcome to the Forum...

So not sure what the Cameras you are using or what NVR your using or if your using POE Switch? So with this info it might be better to give info if we know what your working with? Sadly not all cameras or NVR's are made the same... Also while I know it is hard to say that all cables are made to work right sadly not all cable testers are made to test the cables right.. So it could be that while you tested out your cable an they tested ok they might only be testing for Network ability and not POE ability!???

So you take camera that you tested on your made cable down to the short premade cable and the camera worked? But when you take it back to the install area the camera no longer works?

[PCRC]

This is the NVR: Amcrest NV4116E-4TB (16CH 720p/1080p/3MP/4MP/5MP/6MP/8MP) Network Video Recorder - Supports up to 16 x 8-Megapixel IP Cameras, Pre-Installed 4TB Hard Drive and these are the cameras: Amcrest UltraHD 4K (8MP) Outdoor Bullet POE IP Camera, 3840x2160, 131ft NightVision, 2.8mm Lens, IP67 Weatherproof, MicroSD Recording, Black (IP8M-2496EB-28MM)

What tester should I be using to test POE ability? As far as I know the tester I used shows connections between the two ends. If the connection is solid the 8 lines light up showing the correct connection. What more is needed? The cable is Cat6. The cables don't need to be crossover (the short cables aren't) so what am I missing?
Thanks!

[Revo2Maxx]

Ok Great Thank you that helps alot...

First your NVR has a 8 port NVR if you want to setup a few cameras outside the security as I said before and setup a few or couple of cameras with P2P then you would need a Switch

SO your Cameras shouldn't have a Issue with long transmissions seeing the Transmission Range 800m (2624ft) @ 10Mbps, 300m (984ft) @ 100Mbps. So here is a few questions sorry I am not there so I need to ask in order to understand better....

1 Did you try a different Camera then the one that first didn't work on that line? 2 Did you try that camera on the shorter cable next to the NVR?

So I don't know about testers that would be better then another without spending large amount of cash... However I did use a Friend of mine tester when we were on a install where the house was rather far away and didn't want to go up a large hill about 3 football field in length... So we used it better part of the day and just got off the phone with him, because it was nice and didn't cost so much he said.. It was called.. Inline Power Over Ethernet Voltage and Current Tester (POE Tester Detector) he paid around 70 and I just seen it on Amazon for under 50 right now... It is By PoE Texas...

[PCRC]

Thanks for the assistance. I'll take a look at the tester. Not sure what I'd do if the tester shows the line is good and the cameras still don't work...

No I haven't tried another camera. I'll do that today. The distance is well within the range, so hopefully it's just a camera thing.

When I add devices and scan the serial number it happens so quickly I have trouble believing it picked up the barcode. When the app asks me to name the device it doesn't provide that info. Wish it did so I knew it picked up the barcode correctly.

One additional question if you don't mind: I can change the device password in the app and on the NVR. When I change the password on the camera in the app do I need to change the password on the NVR as well? Are these passwords different than the password to access the app or NVR?

Cheers!

[CronoBandit]

I’m laying (no pun intended) 5:1 odds that your issue is the existing CAT6 home cable(s).

First, forget about PoE for a moment, and just consider the data signals . . .

Cat6 realistic max data transmission reliability is around 165 ft for 10mbit – which is a decent distance for most single family homes, and given most IP cams are 10mbit anyways. So, if the problem run you are having is significantly shorter, the issue is something else. BTW, cat6A can almost double that to around 300ft, and doubles bandwidth.

That said, regardless of distance, what ruins existing CAT cable runs in homes the most, is simply a factor of the cable’s chosen path by the original installer. More specifically, if the CAT cable runs next-to and/or crosses AC power runs - which is super easy in the attic or basement of most homes.
Example: I once had a relatively short (aka 15ft) cat6 (unshielded), literally one room to the room next door, that simply would not work. Sure, tested fine with a cheapo LED test dongle. Turns-out, the cat6 was fed through the same hole drilled into the upper 2x4 support inside the wall that an AC receptacle romex cable came down the same wall. I re-route that SAME cat6 cable down its own hole AND kept it +6 inches from any power line and it started working just fine. Moral-of-the-story : regardless of length, AC noise cross-induction can and will drown-out the data signals quite easily !!

Solution: Obviously avoid crossing - and especially paralleling - AC runs ANYWHERE along the CAT’s paths. The problem is that you are dealing with existing runs, and given you do fine a problem area, to “move” such sections might require partial-to-total re-running the entire run. And if you have to re-run new wire, my golden-rule has been to lay (at minimum) CAT6A AND be it the “shielded” type for extra insurance!! I have CAT6A shielded patch cord cables with shielded RJ45 crimped plugs for all my PoE runs. Some runs are near and even cross power lines (yet never run parallel) and 100% no issues at all.

Now back to PoE . . .

It’s DC power, and therefor losses voltage over long distances due to the tiny AWG wires in CAT cables. PoE (48v standard) is said to be good up-to 300ft depending on what is being powered. So that puts the typical DC power transmission on-par with data transmission capability - if we are talking 6A. Nd PoE+ isn’t really any better, as it’s the same voltage – just higher wattage.

That said, if you feel your issue is power (not data), there are some switches (and power injectors) that sometimes offer a “boost” feature/mode for extra long runs. My guess however is that your NVR should be already up to the task, which is why I think AC noise is killing your data.

[PCRC]

Thanks. The Cat6 cables were run by another contractor when the home was being built and I have no way of knowing where or how the cables were run. Would the POE Tester referred to above (Inline Power Over Ethernet Voltage and Current Tester (POE Tester Detector)) detect the issue of power cable noise? I would need to show the owner that the problem was the Cat6 cable and not the NVR / Camera setup for him to consider running new wires (this would be bad... the entire home is wired for cameras outside at the corners of the house and his woodshop. I will get the Cat6 cable info and post it here so we can determine what kind of cable was used.

If there is power cable noise would a switch / power injector overcome that problem and allow the use of the existing wiring?

Thanks very much for the assistance!

Edit: You mentioned "most IP cams are 10mbit anyways." I checked out the Technical Spec sheet on the IP8M-2496E-28MM camera and the only mention I could find of MBPS is "Transmission Range 800m (2624ft) @ 10Mbps, 300m (984ft) @ 100Mbps ". How do I know if the camera is 10mbit?

[Revo2Maxx]

To be honest I am not sure everyone does this But I don't ever leave the Default Password in cameras even behind a NVR this is where I switch or POE injector comes in handy.. Need to setup cameras... You can setup a master and export the data then import to the other camera.. This mostly would be done for the one outside the NVR network but Passwords need to change in my way of doing things...

Also any camera that is outside of the NVR connected to the normal Router should not have any normal Password that would be used for other things.. I would use one for the cameras... In some cases even the same one as you used for theNVR....

Then when you go to set up the cameras in the NVR... You would find them in the list. They will get added and the dot will be Orange.. Click on the Pencil and change the passwords the ones you them up to have once you apply the new password the dot for the camera should change to green and appear in the feed list...

Also most cameras don't come set with Static IP... I would under Network in the setup of the cameras TCP/IP change the Ip from DHCP to Static and setup a IP scheme that works for your clients...

[Revo2Maxx]

So I was just talking with my Friend and while he told me what it was called and I did a search I guess the reason it cost more was because I just found out his is Gen2 model that does I guess cost around 70 to 80 and has some updated testing.. While I can't say it would be able to test out if it is AC noise that is keeping it from working I know there are other testers out there that can do all this and even tell you length of cable...

Now for the sad truth... Even cat6 on a Cheap tester could come out as being good even if there was a Kink or other issues that is in play.. Maybe kinked or Stretched maybe the issue is cable test out good on what is needed for the cable to give network ability but fails on power do to kink or other issue that could pass normal testing.... And as the other poster said even AC noise... I didn't mention because most times pulled wire is within its own pocket and far enough from power wires that normally hasn't been an issue... But could be again something to think about..

Test easy... Have more then just the camera your working with try another one... Try a different Port on the NVR Pull some test cable to the Location and put some ends on and test out the run over your cable... There is a lot of different ways to test out cause... test cable again with tester you own.. It might be that it tested out ok but the connector is bad after being unplugged the wire broke...

Is the Wire Stranded or Solid? I hate Stranded wires and use mostly all solid wires

[PCRC]

The wire is solid. The cable throughout the house are Sewell 23AWG UTP CM CAT6 4Pairs TIA/EIA 568

I will run wire from the NVR to the endpoint to see if that works. The customer won't be happy his cables aren't working. I'm sure he paid quite a bit to have them run. No tests were done, just cables from one point in the basement to endpoints throughout the house.

I was thinking of turning off the power to the house, running an extension cord from a generator to the required equipment to test for AC noise. That would probably prove the AC issue.