Hello, my front entrance exterior has an existing 2 conductor (24awg, I believe) wire which terminates in my basement. I wish to use this existing wire to power the IP2M-841 (ie, power plugged in basement and camera mounted outside on first floor 30 feet away).
After hooking up everything, the camera makes a clicking noise and does not power up. I have verified the voltage is 5v at the outside miniplug. And the camera does work with the normal power cable. Any suggestions on how to make the camera work with this long extension? It is not possible for me to run a new wire over this distance.
Thank you.
IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
-
soulmining
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:53 pm
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
Hello and Welcome to the Forum
Sadly there is more to make a camera work then Volts...
What you have is 5 volt with no load. Once your load is added you have what is called Voltage Drop.. Voltage drop is caused by the current draw of the device your trying to power.. Your camera using the Amcrest Power supply isn't going to work on 20 or 30 foot of cable... I would guess that the Max extension for these would be 8 or 10 feet on the normal power wire size...
What can someone do that wants to use what your talking about? Well one would need a Power supply that will work at a High Current output and best to have bigger then 24awg wire from the power location... This would also need a power supply that could provide the power per drop so say you tested your supply over your wire and it was 3.5vdc on load this mean you would need a power supply there that could provide 6.5vdc and no lower then 3amps.. This is going to need to be dialed in as I wouldn't want to have a 6.5vdc power supply at 3amps cook the cameras if it only needed 6vdc...
To be honest I would have an Electrician put in an outlet. Per Code there should be a outlet in homes with in 6 foot of a door on every 12 foot wall there should be at least 1 outlet and that no point on a wall should be more then 6 foot from a outlet...
The other thing to do is use larger wire for your camera power supply because the smaller the wire the more resistance it has and aids in voltage drop
Sadly there is more to make a camera work then Volts...
What you have is 5 volt with no load. Once your load is added you have what is called Voltage Drop.. Voltage drop is caused by the current draw of the device your trying to power.. Your camera using the Amcrest Power supply isn't going to work on 20 or 30 foot of cable... I would guess that the Max extension for these would be 8 or 10 feet on the normal power wire size...
What can someone do that wants to use what your talking about? Well one would need a Power supply that will work at a High Current output and best to have bigger then 24awg wire from the power location... This would also need a power supply that could provide the power per drop so say you tested your supply over your wire and it was 3.5vdc on load this mean you would need a power supply there that could provide 6.5vdc and no lower then 3amps.. This is going to need to be dialed in as I wouldn't want to have a 6.5vdc power supply at 3amps cook the cameras if it only needed 6vdc...
To be honest I would have an Electrician put in an outlet. Per Code there should be a outlet in homes with in 6 foot of a door on every 12 foot wall there should be at least 1 outlet and that no point on a wall should be more then 6 foot from a outlet...
The other thing to do is use larger wire for your camera power supply because the smaller the wire the more resistance it has and aids in voltage drop
Be Safe.
-
soulmining
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:53 pm
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
Thank you for the response James.
I also have a RG59 coaxial cable at the door to the basement. have tried using this and it measures 5.15vdc at the door (same voltage as the factory supplied cable with no load). Unfortunately, the camera would not power up with the RG59 neither. I guess the voltage drop under load is too great as you mentioned.
I have other surveillance cameras that are power over ethernet and they seem to be ok with long run of cat5 cables. Would it be possible I may be able to buy another camera (say 12vdc similar to my POE cameras) that will work with the longer cable? Are 12vdc cameras less sensitive to longer power cable runs?
Thank you again!
I also have a RG59 coaxial cable at the door to the basement. have tried using this and it measures 5.15vdc at the door (same voltage as the factory supplied cable with no load). Unfortunately, the camera would not power up with the RG59 neither. I guess the voltage drop under load is too great as you mentioned.
I have other surveillance cameras that are power over ethernet and they seem to be ok with long run of cat5 cables. Would it be possible I may be able to buy another camera (say 12vdc similar to my POE cameras) that will work with the longer cable? Are 12vdc cameras less sensitive to longer power cable runs?
Thank you again!
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
Sadly any device that is ran over distance is going to have an issue with voltage drop... What a lot of people don't know is not all cameras are Equal.. While it is said they need 12v it might be a camera that while they don't advertise it, it can run as low as 9vdc and that is to help with Voltage drop.. However then there are the people out there that are like me that have way more cameras then needed and have more then normal setups.. I have Power supplies that are running 24vac some 24vdc and a few that are 12vdc however these are different then most wall power supplies and have the ability to make adjustment to the power supply to give more power when needed... I also have POE switch and a POE+ Switch because some of my cameras that are POE require the POE+
So I am not sure if you tried to power the camera over the RG59 cable or if your talking about having a Power cord cable paired with the RG59 and you tried over the power cord part... Sadly this could have been worse then the 30 foot you had before depending on the length of the cables?
Here is what a lot of people don't understand... Voltage Drop Happens.. A lot of times the power supplies that are given with cameras can work at the camera... Some companies offer good ones and can work over the Cables they provide.. However sometimes people use a different cable that wasn't from the company that made their camera and the cables in them are even smaller to Voltage drop even worse.
Even Siamese cables are not all made the same and some people go and pay 50 for 1000 feet of cable and make their own setup to find out the power supplies given with the new cameras don't work or they have a Ground Loop and have very bad picture...
So an Idea and sadly not one I am fond of really... If your router is close and or you live in an area with little WIFI traffic you could use your RG59 cable if paired with power wire pair to power the Wifi Camera and that might work... If the cable is of good quality and camera don't require 3 or more amps to power it then easy way is a Wifi camera.. It is an idea.. Best idea would be to pull new cat5e or cat6 that isn't CCA and run another POE camera is the best solution...
So I am not sure if you tried to power the camera over the RG59 cable or if your talking about having a Power cord cable paired with the RG59 and you tried over the power cord part... Sadly this could have been worse then the 30 foot you had before depending on the length of the cables?
Here is what a lot of people don't understand... Voltage Drop Happens.. A lot of times the power supplies that are given with cameras can work at the camera... Some companies offer good ones and can work over the Cables they provide.. However sometimes people use a different cable that wasn't from the company that made their camera and the cables in them are even smaller to Voltage drop even worse.
Even Siamese cables are not all made the same and some people go and pay 50 for 1000 feet of cable and make their own setup to find out the power supplies given with the new cameras don't work or they have a Ground Loop and have very bad picture...
So an Idea and sadly not one I am fond of really... If your router is close and or you live in an area with little WIFI traffic you could use your RG59 cable if paired with power wire pair to power the Wifi Camera and that might work... If the cable is of good quality and camera don't require 3 or more amps to power it then easy way is a Wifi camera.. It is an idea.. Best idea would be to pull new cat5e or cat6 that isn't CCA and run another POE camera is the best solution...
Be Safe.
-
soulmining
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:53 pm
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
Sorry I wasnt clear. Yes, I have tried using the RG59 as a power cable for the Amcrest, and it would not power up neither.
I do have a 12vdc power supply that looks similar to this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _nine.html. It was used to power my old CCTV analog cameras. Are they better for long power cable runs? Perhaps I can get a 12vdc wi-fi camera to try with this power supply?
Thanks again.
I do have a 12vdc power supply that looks similar to this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _nine.html. It was used to power my old CCTV analog cameras. Are they better for long power cable runs? Perhaps I can get a 12vdc wi-fi camera to try with this power supply?
Thanks again.
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
Most companies that sale Wifi cameras will provide a Power supply with them unless you get it second hand and they may not... However to be honest I would be suspect of anyone trying to sell a camera that says it don't come with a Power supply when it did from factory...
RG59 as power cable isn't going to work well under any load... It is a 75ohm system and the power loss is going to be to great. However if your talking about using Siamese camera cabling that gives a RG59 and 2 18awg wires then that could work for a wifi camera.. But power over the CCTV cable for video will not work at any voltage with good results.
About your Old power supply it will depend on the quality of PDU that you have.. I have a few different ones a few even from the same Company and while one of their units offers the ability to turn up the power of the supply the other ones from them don't But yes that is a much better supply then a normal wall worts that people get with a single camera or at times with a multi camera setup with a splitter and the Splitters are the weakest link in the systems
RG59 as power cable isn't going to work well under any load... It is a 75ohm system and the power loss is going to be to great. However if your talking about using Siamese camera cabling that gives a RG59 and 2 18awg wires then that could work for a wifi camera.. But power over the CCTV cable for video will not work at any voltage with good results.
About your Old power supply it will depend on the quality of PDU that you have.. I have a few different ones a few even from the same Company and while one of their units offers the ability to turn up the power of the supply the other ones from them don't But yes that is a much better supply then a normal wall worts that people get with a single camera or at times with a multi camera setup with a splitter and the Splitters are the weakest link in the systems
Be Safe.
-
soulmining
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:53 pm
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
Sigh...seems like I'm stuck with either pulling a CAT5e or rolling the dice with buying another wifi camera and hoping it will work with the long power cable. I appreciate your help James.
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
I guess there are some battery powered Wifi cameras out there if that would work for you...
Be Safe.
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
I have an IP2M-842 that has the power line extended by 25 feet and it works fine. I used 18 gauge wire (from an old extension cord). Perhaps using the coax as well as your 22 ga. wire in parallel would work. Note that running cat5e will only help if you have a POE camera. Amcrest POE cameras have an "e" at the end of the model number. Cat5e has very small wires, but the POE system was designed knowing there would be voltage drop.
Re: IP2M-841 not working using long power extension cord
Yes larger AWG as I was saying when asking about the RG59 if it was only the Video or if it had the 2 18awg wires seeing the 18awg should be more then enough to power the camera...
About pulling cat5e again please at all cost stay away from CCA because by true standards it isn't Cat5e or one selling Cat6 that is CCA isn't true or ul approved...
However you can use Cat5 Cat5e or cat6 to power other devices that would normally be run on 18awg wires.. you just need to run them on paired wires.. However you would need to use all 8 wires for the total affect of running 2 18awg wires... So then you have to cost out the project.. 18 awg x 2 cost of wires are going to cost less and to be honest is really a better choice but if you had cat5e or cat6 already in hand taking 4 aka 2 pairs put together for Ground and the other 2 pairs for the positive will be same as having run a pair of 18awg as stated by the American Wire Gauge guide lines...
About pulling cat5e again please at all cost stay away from CCA because by true standards it isn't Cat5e or one selling Cat6 that is CCA isn't true or ul approved...
However you can use Cat5 Cat5e or cat6 to power other devices that would normally be run on 18awg wires.. you just need to run them on paired wires.. However you would need to use all 8 wires for the total affect of running 2 18awg wires... So then you have to cost out the project.. 18 awg x 2 cost of wires are going to cost less and to be honest is really a better choice but if you had cat5e or cat6 already in hand taking 4 aka 2 pairs put together for Ground and the other 2 pairs for the positive will be same as having run a pair of 18awg as stated by the American Wire Gauge guide lines...
Be Safe.