Need help with image quality

Have some questions or having issues with your IP Camera(s), Post them here for the mods and other users to assist you with.
ITGuy1024
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Need help with image quality

Post by ITGuy1024 »

Pogo wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 3:52 pm I just had another response disappear when hitting 'submit' so I'll try again with an abbreviated version.

What NVR are you using?

It probably won't make much difference, but it's common practice to have the frame rate and I-frame interval the same and your I-frame is set to twice the frame rate which is essentially every two seconds in your case.

As for other cameras to consider, you may want to look into a vari-focal solution for your purpose, or maybe going with a PTZ for even greater flexibility. I bought a cheapie 2MP analog 2.8mm - 12mm as a backyard bird feeder cam for my older DVR and have been pleasantly surprised by the results. And I'm one of those folks who doesn't think megapixels are everything, especially when all crammed into the same camera. Give me four 2MP or two 4MP cameras any day over a single 4K camera, and I have all of them in my system.
It's the NV4108E-A2 NVR.
ITGuy1024
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Need help with image quality

Post by ITGuy1024 »

Revo2Maxx wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 6:40 pm So I just looked at one of my 8mp IP cameras that has a max FPS of 15, I setup that camera to run at 15 I-Frames for a few people that drove by and to be honest I didn't see anything different in playback even playing back while paused frame by frame it looks about the same. So how would I know for sure to be honest I would have to have 2 of the same cameras at the same point of view and one set to 1x and other set to 2x aka in this case 15 i-Frome and 30 i-Frame respectfully. Play back and look at the images in each frame forward to see when the real frame changes. To be fair that is most noticed on events that have no change. Because the I frame is the frame of Change the P frame I think is the Frame that don't change within the time.. It has been a long time and the books are buried right now..

However about a camera as Pogo said in your area there I personally would put up a Static camera that has a good size lens to get the best picture quality at night time. Most cameras with the right sized image sensor will look great.. Personally 4mp is what I prefer unless you have a need for a Long view then the 5mp. Then using a PTZ camera even an older one seeing you don't want or need the AI you said I would buy the 858 and that is because it has 25x zoom and you will be able to see the smallest bird in the grass from your cameras area of view.. Use the static camera for full area static image and use the PTZ camera to get a closer view of the wildlife. Like in my case I have a PTZ camera that I can view a bird feeder and ground feeder that feeds everything that passes by. Then I have a preset that lets me zoom into the bottom feeder and another preset that lets me see the water bowl (Not the fountain that is in the front yard) and a preset that I can look at the Temperature outside and so on.. Then at night if I get bored lol. I will look at the moon with the camera.

However if the price between say an AI 25x PTZ camera and the non AI was only a few dollars different then buy the updated AI camera even if not tu use the AI seeing it will have Firmware Updates much longer then the older soon to EOL if they haven't already..
You're referring to this camera I assume?
https://amcrest.com/amcrest-prohd-ptz-2 ... white.html

I was looking at this camera for the 5x zoom.
https://amcrest.com/4k-poe-camera-turre ... 779ew.html
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Need help with image quality

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Well to be honest I was thinking about telling you that would be a nice camera. Only issue is that it is FIXED install and then it gives you the ability to zoom in up to 5x the issue is and I have made a video I think or maybe just a post.. However when you install a camera like that you will want to zoom it to 100% in as far as the camera will go and then install and point to the area you want to have the best view of. Then the issue can be that once you zoom out you might not get the best view of the over all area..

Now there is a 4mp PTZ camera as well. While I did say 858 there is also a 1053 that might be a better option sorry didn't think about 858 being the 2mp.. However keep in mind. That 858 on the target area of that 8mp camera with the 5x zoom. That 2mp camera with 25x zoom will give you the best of all worlds in picture quality. What I mean. Is Let's say that your bird feeder is the area you have your 5x zoom too, The 2mp camera at 25x zoom would have a better quality picture past the point that the 8mp camera would become blurry using the 5x plus digital zoom.. Looking at the picture below is of 2 cameras in area about 2.5feet from one another you can see the 2mp camera in the 8mp zoomed out picture. That is because this camera has a Wide area of View with a 2.8mm lens and then will zoom in 4x to around 12mm.. now the 2mp camera is only a 5mmx50mm and is a 10x camera. However if I didn't have a nesting bird with some chicks behind the camera I would fix the 8mp to look at same area when zoomed in to show that the 2mp camera 10x zoomed in would have a better image quality then the 8mp at 4x or in your case 5x zoomed and then would have to use digital zoom to get to that area of view.. The second picture I took to show the area of view I have setup for the 2 cameras. One is on a AI DVR the 2mp 10x is and the other is a Semi AI camera and I am using the IVS intrusion for some quality control testing between my 2 systems. The camera is up the street to capture more of the area that the 10x zoom 2mp camera can't see at it's current height position. This camera 2mp I can use to read License plates if I wanted to even at this location with this lens.

Then the 1053 PTZ would be even a better camera then the 2mp one for the best quality over the 8mp camera and over all that what makes it even better is that it will pan and tilt and zoom to even a much further area then the 10x zoomed in looking at the street. I know some people might think why did I put it there and to be honest that is the area where cars come around the corner and front plates can be seen perfect. However as of now my state did away with requiring front plates so don't really matter but was there for while already..
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Pogo
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Re: Need help with image quality

Post by Pogo »

ITGuy1024 wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:11 pm It's the NV4108E-A2 NVR.
Certainly a capable unit, but it does have limitations at 4K as you likely already know from the spec sheet. I gather the camera in question is the only 4K camera and should not be affected by the inherent constraints of the NVR when running multiple hi-resolution devices. That said, there are other aspects of the NVR and camera settings that could have a bearing on the issue(s) at hand that you indicate also apply to a 5M camera. And while camera settings could well be playing a role, and after four pages of discussion on the matter with indications that the current condition applies to multiple cameras, it's time to investigate other possible causes.

But first, I'd reduce the bitrate of the camera to 4096 or maybe even 2048 to smooth that out a bit. Amcrest themselves suggests as much, especially running H265 encoding. And just for the heck of it, kill the substream for now, well..., just because at this point. Reboot the camera to make sure the changes have been implemented. And as previously suggested, you may also want to try 2560x1440 (4M) at a bitrate of 2048 @20~30fps with a 1 sec I-frame interval. It doesn't get much more general than that as mid-resolution settings go and should provide a more than acceptable image -- if not a very nice one.

This gets us past the camera to what's left -- the NVR, the display(s), and the connectivity among all the devices involved. And from everything discussed so far, I'm ruling out the camera itself as the problem since the comparison to even your 5M camera seems to indicate a level of quality in the 720p range as referenced from your previous experience with such a system. To me that indicates something is choking the camaras.

I realize there are different viewing mediums involved, beginning with the camera physically interfaced to the main point (NVR) with UTP of some type via RJ-45 connectors and terminations. The wire should be 24AWG solid copper. Nothing else. Ideally, the cable terminations should be professionally done with excessive cable length kept to an absolute minmum. The outdoor connection should be housed in a weatherproof enclosure without exception. (The gland type enclosure provided by most manufactures with their PoE cameras are usually acceptable.) Any cable fasteners used should be approriate for the application. Staples, sharp bends and pinches of the cabling must be avoided. And while probably (and normally) not an issue, checking the PoE voltage should probably be done under these circumstances..., again, just because. A cable tester could also come in handy for checking the pairs. So there's the connection part.

The NVR is obviously the next in line. The first thing I'd check under the circumstances is the video output display setting. Even with a 4K TV as a monitor, a 1080p resolution will play much nicer across the board for general purposes. The higher the resolution, the more artifacts will be visible from lesser resolution sources as will settings anomilies from higher resolution sources. The larger the display area, the worse the image will be at a higher display resolution for a digital IP camera NVR display output.

Across the network on various other types of displays can certainly be different story altogether, e.g. a 4K stream viewed on an Android phone. With that in mind, and depending on the type of display available on what I presume is a PC or Mac somewhere in the mix, you may want to try VLC Media Player as an alternate viewing platform for an image comparison and to also confirm the peformance of the stream by analyzing the codec (within certain limits). If you're not familiar with it, it's a free Open Source project available here: https://www.videolan.org/vlc/ I'd happily provide the required details for establishing an RTSP stream directly from an NVR channel to an external device running VLC if you're not already familiar with the general format for doing so.

There could be other issues with the NVR all the way down to its power supply and that's a level of assessment well beyond this thread. But with that said, installing any of the HDDs you mentioned should take less time than to remove the screws once the lid is off, so there may indeed be additional issues with the NVR contributing to your image quality issues.

Lastly, you can eliminate the NVR entirely using VLC and a PoE switch to power the camera and get it on your network for a completely raw test just using the camera's web interface for setting it up. Not difficult to do and would bypass everything currently between the camera and the VLC display. If the image quality is still bad, it's the camera.

I'm just about out of bullets on this one and hardly an expert. I'm sure there are a few other areas to explore that Revo will undoubtedly bring to our attention! His rundown on the cameras is essentially what I was alluding to also and he covered it well.

Good luck!
ITGuy1024
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Need help with image quality

Post by ITGuy1024 »

Pogo wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:12 am
ITGuy1024 wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:11 pm It's the NV4108E-A2 NVR.
I realize there are different viewing mediums involved, beginning with the camera physically interfaced to the main point (NVR) with UTP of some type via RJ-45 connectors and terminations. The wire should be 24AWG solid copper. Nothing else. Ideally, the cable terminations should be professionally done with excessive cable length kept to an absolute minmum. The outdoor connection should be housed in a weatherproof enclosure without exception. (The gland type enclosure provided by most manufactures with their PoE cameras are usually acceptable.) Any cable fasteners used should be approriate for the application. Staples, sharp bends and pinches of the cabling must be avoided. And while probably (and normally) not an issue, checking the PoE voltage should probably be done under these circumstances..., again, just because. A cable tester could also come in handy for checking the pairs. So there's the connection part.
I can speak confidently about the wiring. I've been in IT for 15 years and made probably hundreds of cables.
Ran the shortest path from my rack to the cameras. No kinks or staples smashed in the cable.
CAT6 cable for the runs.
Tested end to end.
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