Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

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Nhamcrestcam
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:28 pm

Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Nhamcrestcam »

I have these 3 cameras:
IP8M-2496EB-28MM
IP8M-VB2696EW-AI
IP8M-2796EB-AI

Nvr:
NV4116E-A2

All cameras are on a single Ethernet injected with:
Cudy 90 Watts Gigabit PoE++ Injector

I've got this splitter out in the woods which then routes to the 3 cams: Outdoor Gigabit PoE Extender, 5 Port PoE Repeater, 90W in 60W Out PoE Switch

Anyway,

I'm pretty dissatisfied with my experience so far. I want to manipulate the shutter speed to hopefully capture license plates or at least partial plate. I see this can only be accomplished through each camera's individual webpage. Shame on Amcrest for not embedding that setting in all 12 places where settings are managed.

I was able to adjust the shutter speed by unplugging the Ethernet from my nvr and hooking directly into my router. This allowed me to connect to the cams in my normal 192.* Network.

When I returned the Ethernet to the NVR, 2 cameras cam back up fine on the 10.x up range, but 1 camera came up listed with the 192.* IP address. I tried to add it, but it just said couldn't reach network or something.
So I deleted it, it showed back up in the top area of the NVR add camera screen...I clicked edit IP...and I think this one had a static IP set, so I clicked in the password with the provided mouse for probably the 800th time in 2 months and set the IP to DHCP. The camera then refused to show back up .

So I hiked out to the woods with a Phillips head screw driver to manually reset the optical zoom cam that didn't come back, but unfortunately Amcrest couldn't get that information correct on their website, so had to go back from my t15 star bit that I would have brought had I not checked their documentation...I digress...
Really jenky reset mechanism, but the camera reset and finally came back up and could be added. Obviously I lost my shutter speed settings in the process.

How can I set this up without ruining my setup for hours and hours? I've tried port forwarding, but I can't get it to work and would rather not risk leaving my network vulnerable.

What if I plug a laptop into the Ethernet with all 3 cameras on it? What if I bring my laptop out to the woods and plugged the cam in directly and bypass the splitter?

Also, I have 1 more jack on my splitter, so if there's a camera that does this out of the box ( and not the $780 gray one that amcrest sells) I'd probably just get a new one over messing with this.

Also, this forum logs me out while typing up posts and I lost this whole message at least once already!
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Hello and Welcome to the Forum..

Couple of things, I am not sure how you are running your system to your NVR.. From what you write it sounds like you are running on POE to the NVR but in your writing going from 192 to 10 is normally what is setup for 192 being someone normal local IP and 10.1.1.xx as the NVRs switch..

Yet being setup on a POE injector that is powering a POE Extender sounds like you are using 1 cable out to the injector and then that is going to the splitter to your 3 cameras. This would then normally be setup on your normal local IP address and you would have the ability to access the cameras over your normal network range.. In my case my normal IP range is 10.0.0.xxx and my POE NVRs I change the switch IP but normally are in some combo of the IP like my 4116E-HS is 10.0.0.225 would be 10.2.25.xxx and so on..

So in my case if I wanted to connect to my cameras that are on 10.2.25.xxx I then log into the NVR, I go to the NVRs camera page and I click on the e next to the camera I want to make changes to. If you are using Chrome for this you will want to first click a POE camera you don't want to play in because it will load a port that Chrome is setup to deny access too then the one you want to work with click it and it will load the next camera on 10081 where the first one loads at 10080 and chrome don't like that port.. Then I can log into the cameras WebUI and make changes needed without issue.. However with you using 4116E-A2 this gives you a 8port POE and 8ch that can be loaded on your normal network I would look at setting up your cameras on your normal IP range of the network and this will give you direct access to the cameras in question..

About your cameras.. IF I am honest none of them are good for night time plate capture.. While 8mp is a great camera in the day at night it can suffer. In the case of your VF 8mp AI camera it has a image sensor that really isn't that great for night time even with the Fixed Iris and f1.5 this means that your camera has a fixed f1.5 in all ranges of the lens and when you zoom the camera into an area it moves the light that is being sent back to the sensor and because of this trait can/will cause noise in low light. Talking about going through the woods this makes me guess that the light at night isn't going to be all that great..

What camera would be good to use as a plate capture camera at night? If you had to have 8mp then you would want the ip8m-tb2886ew-ai, Keep in mind this isn't a cheap camera either. https://amcrest.com/4k-8-megapixel-poe- ... ew-ai.html
I did a write up on this camera on my Forum https://www.revo2maxx.info/viewtopic.php?t=261 and it will explain why it is the best camera for 8mp at night.

Issue is a good 4mp camera in Amcrest line up they don't seem to offer it anymore. At least I have not seen it come back into stock for a while. and that would be the 1046EW-AI camera. It has a great image sensor and while the aperture could have been better it does offer a great picture at night. I will admit that mine is no longer stock and have changed out the lens for a 3.6mm and a f1.2. The place I used to have my 1046EW-AI mounted I have changed it out for another camera same sensor 4mp, 2.8mm lens with a f1.0 and with my truck in the front yard I can see my plate zooming into the thing and can read it at over 30 feet away and mounted 10 feet up at night.. Could also do so using my 1046EW-AI when I had my Truck placed there..

Keep in mind that all plate captures using any camera that isn't a real LPR/ANPR and you will need to look at each of the captures and note down the Plates of each vehicle.. The camera you say you don't want to have to buy is a ANPR and does more then just track each of the plates into a data base as long as you have a NVR that is able to store said data, The 4116E-A2 won't so even with the spendy camera you would need to access the camera to get the data it captures..
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Keep in mind to anyone that might be reading this thread. To be clear a 16Ch NVR from Amcrest in this case the 4116E-A2 NVR can work with 8ch POE connected and can work as 16ch NVR and that NVR and most of Amcrest NVRs that are POE can load all cameras over the local IP are not required to use the POE ports of the NVR to access all channels..

Meaning you can use the POE NVR as a standard 16ch NVR using your local network as DHCP server for all your cameras and only 1 ethernet cable going to your NVR would be needed...
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Nhamcrestcam
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:28 pm

Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Nhamcrestcam »

I swear I replied back to this a little while ago, but not seeing it...anyway.

Great tips! Thank you so much! I plugged my cameras directly into my router on the single cable and then was easily able to still add them in my nvr with the standard Ips for my home, 192.* Like you said! Excellent...

This allows me to then just go to the 192.x nvr through a browser to easily hop to the camera's individual pages.

I ended up pulling the trigger on the cam you linked... I really want to get these people throwing trash out their car onto my property at 30-40 mph.

Any recommendation on the shutter speed settings? I'm trying out 1/60 at night with 1/1000 during day. I set the fps down to 4 on each cam. I didn't change much else other than turning on BLC which I think I saw recommended in another post. Would you change any other settings? You're a hero. This took me 3 minutes just now compared to the several hours and multiple trips into the woods last time .
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Here’s a suggestion: I would stick with the default settings the camera comes with right out of the box.

As for frame rate (FPS), there’s really no benefit to lowering it drastically. Reducing FPS to a very low number will noticeably affect image quality. Some people believe that a camera running at 7fps will deliver the same quality as it does at 22fps, but that’s not accurate. Higher FPS provides smoother motion and clearer details, especially when there’s a lot of movement in the scene.

When comparing video frame rates, such as 7 frames per second (fps) versus 22 fps, on an 8MP IP camera, it's important to understand how frame rate affects the overall video quality. While both frame rates capture images at the camera’s full resolution of 8 megapixels, they differ significantly in terms of motion smoothness and usability for certain applications.

Key Differences Between 7fps and 22fps:
Smoothness of Motion:

7fps: At 7fps, the camera captures fewer frames per second, which results in a more choppy, stuttered depiction of motion. This lower frame rate is less capable of capturing fluid, continuous motion, making it difficult to discern fast-moving objects or events. For example, tracking a person running or a vehicle passing by might appear disjointed, potentially missing critical details.
22fps: A higher frame rate like 22fps delivers much smoother motion, as more frames are captured within the same time frame. This creates a more natural video flow, allowing for better tracking of movement. In situations with rapid motion, such as monitoring traffic or active environments, 22fps is far superior in preserving detail and accuracy.

Detail Preservation During Motion:

7fps: When objects are moving quickly, a lower frame rate like 7fps may result in motion blur or even gaps between frames. This makes it harder to identify fine details like faces, license plates, or small movements. In scenarios where capturing specific, fast-moving details is critical (such as in security applications), 7fps might not provide sufficient clarity.
22fps: With 22fps, there are more frames per second, which helps preserve detail in each moment of movement. This is particularly important for identifying features of moving subjects, providing clearer, more useful footage.

Situational Use Cases:

7fps: This lower frame rate is often sufficient for static environments where there is minimal movement, such as monitoring a warehouse or an empty room. In these cases, the reduced frame rate helps save bandwidth and storage, as fewer frames need to be processed and saved.
22fps: Higher frame rates like 22fps are better suited for dynamic environments with frequent or fast motion. Examples include public spaces, roads, or retail stores, where rapid movement needs to be accurately captured.

Bandwidth and Storage Impact:

7fps: Lower frame rates generate smaller file sizes because fewer frames are being recorded. This reduces the strain on network bandwidth and storage requirements, making it an efficient choice for setups where storage capacity or bandwidth is a concern.
22fps: Higher frame rates, such as 22fps, require more bandwidth and storage due to the increased number of frames per second. While this improves video quality and motion clarity, it also means that more data will need to be processed, stored, and transmitted.

Conclusion:
While both 7fps and 22fps can provide full-resolution 8MP images, they differ drastically in terms of motion smoothness and the ability to capture detailed actions. For environments with minimal motion, 7fps may be sufficient and offer storage efficiency. However, for fast-paced scenes or security purposes where detail and clarity are crucial, 22fps provides a significant improvement in video quality, making it a better choice in most active surveillance applications.

In my setup, when a camera supports 30fps, I typically adjust it to run at 22fps on the main stream and 18fps on the sub stream. I also switch any system set to Variable Bit Rate (VBR) to Constant Bit Rate (CBR) for more consistent quality. Additionally, I leave the default double iFrame setting that Amcrest and Dahua cameras come with. Changing this to 1:1 or switching to VBR to save space can significantly degrade the video quality stored on the hard drive.

Variable Bit Rate (VBR) and using a single iFrame (also known as a keyframe) can negatively impact the quality of recorded video, especially in surveillance systems. While VBR and single iFrame settings are sometimes used to save bandwidth or storage space, they come with trade-offs that can compromise the clarity and reliability of the footage.

Why VBR Can Lower Video Quality:
Inconsistent Bit Rate:

VBR dynamically adjusts the bit rate based on the complexity of the scene. While this can save space during low-motion or static scenes, it reduces the bit rate during those times, potentially causing a drop in video quality. For fast-moving or detailed scenes, VBR may struggle to allocate enough bit rate, leading to pixelation or blurring.
Fluctuating Quality:

With VBR, video quality can vary significantly. When the camera detects a less complex scene (such as a static background), it reduces the bit rate, and this can result in poor detail preservation. If a critical event happens during this low-bit-rate period, the footage may lack the necessary clarity to capture fine details like faces, license plates, or objects in motion.
Impact During Motion:

Since VBR adapts the bit rate in real-time, scenes with sudden movement may not have enough allocated bandwidth, resulting in noticeable quality degradation when it matters most. In security applications, this can be a major problem, as motion-heavy events typically require the highest possible video quality.

Why Single iFrame Can Lower Video Quality:
Increased Compression:

A single iFrame (keyframe) is followed by several pFrames (predictive frames) in the video stream, which are based on the changes between frames. The further a pFrame is from an iFrame, the more compression is applied, leading to a loss of detail. With fewer iFrames (such as 1:1 iFrame-to-frame ratio), the reliance on compressed pFrames increases, potentially causing artifacts or blurring.

Delayed Recovery After Motion:

When motion occurs, the system relies heavily on iFrames to refresh the image and update any changes accurately. With fewer iFrames, any distortions or artifacts caused by movement take longer to clear up, meaning critical moments in the video may remain unclear for several frames. This is especially problematic in high-motion environments where timely and accurate footage is essential.

Frame Skipping and Loss of Detail:

Fewer iFrames can also result in frame skipping during playback or compression artifacts in recorded video. This is because the system has fewer reference points (iFrames) to reconstruct the image from. The longer gaps between iFrames increase the likelihood of lost or distorted data during periods of high motion.

Conclusion:
While VBR and a single iFrame setting may seem like good options for saving bandwidth or storage space, they can significantly impact the quality of recorded video. VBR can cause fluctuations in image quality, especially during moments of motion, while a single iFrame increases compression artifacts and delays in recovering clarity after movement. For surveillance applications where video quality is critical, using Constant Bit Rate (CBR) and more frequent iFrames is a better choice to ensure the footage is clear and reliable.
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Revo2Maxx »

I should also mention that having more frames per second (FPS) greatly improves the chances of capturing a clear image of a license plate on a moving vehicle. If you're using 4 or 7 FPS, you'll only have 4 or 7 frames within one second to capture the plate. With fewer frames, the details may blur or be missed entirely, making it harder to get a clear shot of the plate as the vehicle passes by.
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Nhamcrestcam
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:28 pm

Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Nhamcrestcam »

Just got the IP8M-TB2886EW-AI.

Setting it up and the spotlight came on immediately. I turned off night vision in the web portal and that seems to turn the spotlight off. Am I missing something? I don't want to flash every passing car with a spotlight.
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Well it is a Color at night camera and is the best camera at 8mp for plate captures. If in the area you have your camera isn't well lit then best to keep the LEDS on..

Couple things, First; First line of protection is Deterrence. When using a color at night camera it will help others know that there is a camera and the actions will be recorded. Second is the ability to ID a person or a car that has gone past the camera. While IR cameras are great for General Detection they are not good for night time ID because it lacks detail about color and sure you can tell if a color was light or dark but knowing between grey or white or black and blue is better then just knowing that it might be one or the other and all in between.

Now in my post about the camera on my Forum that I offered a link to, I do point out that this camera is a 4 white LED color at night camera. The Amcrest camera is kind of like one of my older Dahua AI cameras in 4mp as it also has 4 white leds, good size sensor and f/1.0. Now where I have the camera installed the camera in Auto does not turn on the Leds because there is enough light around the scene that it didn't have to. I will admit if I turn the LEDs on manually it does clean up the scene a lot and takes away shadows that come from my porch light. My 1046EW-AI Camera that is built some what the same but has smaller f-stop and while it can work there without the LEDS on when it was in Auto every night the LEDS came on. It is on the front of my house facing the road looking at the front yard and first 50 feet of the driveway. With the 1046EW-Ai camera there and 2 leds on even at 100% there was no light into the street and wouldn't even know there was light there if you were not looking down my driveway..
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Nhamcrestcam
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:28 pm

Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Nhamcrestcam »

I have it mounted to a tree about 15 feet off the road pointed towards my mailbox. No ambient light whatsoever at night. That's okay though, because this thing is fabulous in the day time! Got the plate of the asshat who's been chucking beer cans at my political sign!
Nhamcrestcam
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:28 pm

Re: Manipulate shutter speed for license plates

Post by Nhamcrestcam »

I should probably start a new thread, but any idea why snaps don't work on any of my cams? I used to get them on the view pro android app, but no longer get them in view pro 2. I just get "linked video" of the ai motion. The motion doesn't start for 5 seconds into the video so it takes a while to review all of the clips. Also that video player is awful. Portrait mode has a stop icon while landscape mode has a pause icon. Cannot scrobble or resume/start video from this mode. Landscape mode goes 'full screen' / hides all icons too quickly. Also cannot zoom in this mode.

Kinda have the same problem on the NVR. Takes forever to click into each little yellow block of motion and wait for the motion to occur. Frame stepping backwards often does wild frame skips to the point where it must skip back 5 seconds when I ask for a single frame.

I also setup Gmail snap forwarding on all of my cams. The test email works, but Ive never received an actual alert.
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