Hello everyone, New member, Old dog to cctv systems. Do this for a living, I have about 115 units on line currently. But my problem is what I call
" Growing Grass" I occasionally run into to this with all 3 brands I use. Amcrest, Optiview, and Dahua Nvr systems. Seems focus continually changes slowly and when showing grass or gravel areas, goes from clear to blurry. Almost like various pixel sizes. I have spoke to all 3 tech departments with no clear answer. Doesn't matter on Mp of camera either. Mostly 4-5 or 8. Was told monitor lag, upgrade firmware on all devices etc. I use nearly the same equipment under all 3 brands. About 1 out of 5 have this problem. I have substituted nearly all components except address, still pops up at will.
Doesn't matter, like Amcrest- 4108,4208,5208, and just completed 4232. I use skyhawk or Wd purple drives as well.
Has anyone else seen this? All Nvrs, cat 6, matching brand cameras to Nvr used, All 3 Brands?
The only single fix I have found is to down grade to H264? That seems to be an instant fix. Thanks
Growing Grass!
Re: Growing Grass!
Not 100% sure I understand what you are asking or saying as your Title kind of throws me off..
However from what it sounds like is an issue that I have had with a few h.265 cameras that seems to not always, however at some point in time the screen will go green and in some cases you can make out the scape and in others it is just pure green. I change to h.264h if the camera offers that and if it don't then I change to h.264 and the issue is gone. The Picture below is from a OEM Hikvision that came setup from factory with H.265 enabled for main and h.264 for the sub channel. It only took a day or 2 before one of the motion events or might have been a live view even that I took the screenshot. In this picture you can kind of make out the roof line of a house about 90 feet from them camera. This was a mix like the old TV at night that would go off air and the static. However the ones I get from Amcrest or Dahua is pure green smooth and some can make out and others can't make anything out in the picture.
This screen shot was taken from my App in Blue Iris. You can kind of make out the Birdfeeder in the center of the picture that is mounted on a pole However I have had other cameras with an event show part or all of the event in green and sometimes only part of it like it was having an issue with CPU demand on the camera.
However from what it sounds like is an issue that I have had with a few h.265 cameras that seems to not always, however at some point in time the screen will go green and in some cases you can make out the scape and in others it is just pure green. I change to h.264h if the camera offers that and if it don't then I change to h.264 and the issue is gone. The Picture below is from a OEM Hikvision that came setup from factory with H.265 enabled for main and h.264 for the sub channel. It only took a day or 2 before one of the motion events or might have been a live view even that I took the screenshot. In this picture you can kind of make out the roof line of a house about 90 feet from them camera. This was a mix like the old TV at night that would go off air and the static. However the ones I get from Amcrest or Dahua is pure green smooth and some can make out and others can't make anything out in the picture.
This screen shot was taken from my App in Blue Iris. You can kind of make out the Birdfeeder in the center of the picture that is mounted on a pole However I have had other cameras with an event show part or all of the event in green and sometimes only part of it like it was having an issue with CPU demand on the camera.
- Screenshot_20230920_191015_Blue Iris.jpg (1.17 MiB) Viewed 2984 times
Be Safe.
Re: Growing Grass!
Compression artifacts.
I don't care what anyone claims about H265, it still isn't ready for prime time across the board and the vendors clearly aren't either.
When in doubt, switch to H264. Storage is cheap. Buy more.
But one other thing to possibly think about with transmitting such highly compressed digital information in a relatively young format is the transportation medium itself. Perhaps CCA UTP instead of pure copper is in place where 'this camera does it but the others are fine'. Or perhaps there is just marginal connectivity at the physical level that doesn't come into play until trying to push H265 through the system?
But again, H264 is tried a tested. I don't even mess with H265 except for one Reolink 811A in Blue Iris on the main stream with the sub remaining at H264. It's even backhauled across a 5gHz wi-fi link from my barn shop to an AP on my wired network and works fine.
Yep. A Reolink camera bridged across a wi-fi link into Blue Iris. I will surely burn in hell for even contemplating such a blasphemous endeavor..., let alone making it work. (Many would say I clearly had to sell my soul to the devil to achieve such an accomplishment.) LOL
But like anything else, it's easy when you know how.
I don't care what anyone claims about H265, it still isn't ready for prime time across the board and the vendors clearly aren't either.
When in doubt, switch to H264. Storage is cheap. Buy more.
But one other thing to possibly think about with transmitting such highly compressed digital information in a relatively young format is the transportation medium itself. Perhaps CCA UTP instead of pure copper is in place where 'this camera does it but the others are fine'. Or perhaps there is just marginal connectivity at the physical level that doesn't come into play until trying to push H265 through the system?
But again, H264 is tried a tested. I don't even mess with H265 except for one Reolink 811A in Blue Iris on the main stream with the sub remaining at H264. It's even backhauled across a 5gHz wi-fi link from my barn shop to an AP on my wired network and works fine.
Yep. A Reolink camera bridged across a wi-fi link into Blue Iris. I will surely burn in hell for even contemplating such a blasphemous endeavor..., let alone making it work. (Many would say I clearly had to sell my soul to the devil to achieve such an accomplishment.) LOL
But like anything else, it's easy when you know how.
-
40YearTech
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:54 pm
Re: Growing Grass!
All cameras are wired with pure copper. Maybe a better explanation. It looks like lagging refresh rate, pulsing jumping video as it views an area.
Grass, gravel, seem to pulse like its moving, but its not. I named it growing grass, as it moves. It is not the whole image, usually directly in the middle of the frame. Pixels blur, and distort. Slowed the frame rate, constant and variable rate. Lowered 8Mp - no change. If to change to output from
1080 up to 4K, its horrible, near continuous distortion. Different monitors make no difference.
Grass, gravel, seem to pulse like its moving, but its not. I named it growing grass, as it moves. It is not the whole image, usually directly in the middle of the frame. Pixels blur, and distort. Slowed the frame rate, constant and variable rate. Lowered 8Mp - no change. If to change to output from
1080 up to 4K, its horrible, near continuous distortion. Different monitors make no difference.
Re: Growing Grass!
It is very hard to say what an issue is. When you say that you have 115 units is this over many networks or on just 1 Network? It could be Network lag. Even if it is only 8 to 20 on 1 Network if this kind of thing happens first thing I try is Rebooting the Camera, Router, Switches and the NVR's.
I guess need to ask if this is Between your computer and the device while in playback or in live monitoring?
Now I will admit that if it is a Pulsing action I only have 1 camera that does this from time to time and that is a ASH26. This is a Wifi camera that is connected on a different building to the router 50 to 60 feet away and once I notice that it starts to do this I reboot the camera and the issue stops. Because of the constant issues I will admit that I did change it to H.264 and I have left it there. It is in this case only a 2mp camera and I know that you are talking about 4k. I lowered the FPS to 22, Bit Rate is 4096 and type is CBR.
So looking at the NVR I notice that the Camera in question is doing this and it has been about 1 month since the last reboot. I have stopped monitoring this camera and leave it to just record as a filler of a few other cameras that capture some of the same area of view.
Is it something like what is shown in the video?
https://youtu.be/WYyYF4ErPxA
I guess need to ask if this is Between your computer and the device while in playback or in live monitoring?
Now I will admit that if it is a Pulsing action I only have 1 camera that does this from time to time and that is a ASH26. This is a Wifi camera that is connected on a different building to the router 50 to 60 feet away and once I notice that it starts to do this I reboot the camera and the issue stops. Because of the constant issues I will admit that I did change it to H.264 and I have left it there. It is in this case only a 2mp camera and I know that you are talking about 4k. I lowered the FPS to 22, Bit Rate is 4096 and type is CBR.
So looking at the NVR I notice that the Camera in question is doing this and it has been about 1 month since the last reboot. I have stopped monitoring this camera and leave it to just record as a filler of a few other cameras that capture some of the same area of view.
Is it something like what is shown in the video?
https://youtu.be/WYyYF4ErPxA
Be Safe.
Re: Growing Grass!
I'm still leaning toward a Layer 1 issue impeding the Layer 2 data transmission quality required for the H265 format -- especially given the glaring clue that switching to H264 eliminates the problem.
Additional information would help minimize the guessing. Here are a few things to consider and to possibly investigate further.
- Are any of the proprietary 'Smart Codec' or '+' suffixes being used for the H265 encoding? Are both Main and Sub streams the same encoding format?
- Are appropriate bit rates for H265 implemented in the affected camera's configurations for their area of interest and do the camera and NVR configurations match each other?
- Are you connecting and powering directly via the various NVRs or using external POE and/or switches..., or a combination of both?
- What are the physical distances to the problem devices? Could they be right on the edge of their powering requirements and or the limitations of the powering sources -- and have you calculated that on a case by case basis with reference to the published POE specs for the given power source?
- If using external switches, are the ports set to a fixed rate, or auto-detect?
- How do they perform at night with either type of encoding?
Speaking in strictly practical terms and breaking it down to sheer basics, H265 is the problem with your images/streams. Why that is requires investigating most, if not all, of the above in each individual case where the problem exists. Bear in mind that not all areas of interest will respond to H265 the same even when using the same model of camera with the same exact settings, though the discrepencies would not likely appear as severely as illustrated in you screenshot.
So my take is a physical issue causing a data problem or a configuration issue that is taking H265 tolerances for its optimum performance well beyond its limits -- or the processing power and resolution capabilities of the system(s) involved aren't quite as capable as believed and are simply
being exceeded. All of the above can be methodically approached for the respective affect(s) each may have on the individual H265 related issues.
But for starters...,
If possible, pull a problem camera (or use a spare of the same model if available) and plug straight into whatever the actual camera is plugged into thereby eliminating the cable run and any possible problems there. That'll tell you quite a bit just from a simple 'part swap' exercise.
Another very simple test would be to hammer the piss out of a problem camera with an extended barrage of modestly sized packets from within the same network, say 2048 bits using 'ping (ip address) -l 2048 -t' for a few hours unless an immediate problem is discovered. Latency should be consistently below 10ms max on any decent network and ideally show zero packet loss. Zero. If loss is reported along with excessive latency, a cabling problem is likely to be the cause.
Or just stick with H264 and be done with it like many do when being confronted by the inherent issues of HEVC causing it to not play nice if the wind is blowing the wrong direction.
Good luck.
Additional information would help minimize the guessing. Here are a few things to consider and to possibly investigate further.
- Are any of the proprietary 'Smart Codec' or '+' suffixes being used for the H265 encoding? Are both Main and Sub streams the same encoding format?
- Are appropriate bit rates for H265 implemented in the affected camera's configurations for their area of interest and do the camera and NVR configurations match each other?
- Are you connecting and powering directly via the various NVRs or using external POE and/or switches..., or a combination of both?
- What are the physical distances to the problem devices? Could they be right on the edge of their powering requirements and or the limitations of the powering sources -- and have you calculated that on a case by case basis with reference to the published POE specs for the given power source?
- If using external switches, are the ports set to a fixed rate, or auto-detect?
- How do they perform at night with either type of encoding?
Speaking in strictly practical terms and breaking it down to sheer basics, H265 is the problem with your images/streams. Why that is requires investigating most, if not all, of the above in each individual case where the problem exists. Bear in mind that not all areas of interest will respond to H265 the same even when using the same model of camera with the same exact settings, though the discrepencies would not likely appear as severely as illustrated in you screenshot.
So my take is a physical issue causing a data problem or a configuration issue that is taking H265 tolerances for its optimum performance well beyond its limits -- or the processing power and resolution capabilities of the system(s) involved aren't quite as capable as believed and are simply
being exceeded. All of the above can be methodically approached for the respective affect(s) each may have on the individual H265 related issues.
But for starters...,
If possible, pull a problem camera (or use a spare of the same model if available) and plug straight into whatever the actual camera is plugged into thereby eliminating the cable run and any possible problems there. That'll tell you quite a bit just from a simple 'part swap' exercise.
Another very simple test would be to hammer the piss out of a problem camera with an extended barrage of modestly sized packets from within the same network, say 2048 bits using 'ping (ip address) -l 2048 -t' for a few hours unless an immediate problem is discovered. Latency should be consistently below 10ms max on any decent network and ideally show zero packet loss. Zero. If loss is reported along with excessive latency, a cabling problem is likely to be the cause.
Or just stick with H264 and be done with it like many do when being confronted by the inherent issues of HEVC causing it to not play nice if the wind is blowing the wrong direction.
Good luck.
Re: Growing Grass!
One last thing I always forget to think about and is mainly because it is one of the first things I look at when setting up a camera and that is VBR settings. There are cameras that come setup with VBR as the main setting and if any of my cameras are setup with VBR it seems that I get some crazy looking glitching.. So I did make a Video of changing one of my Dahua 8mp cameras after setting it up with VBR, H.265 and lowered the Bit Rate and it was just gross.. I have not posted that video however I have it and can if needed. If you looked at the Video of the ASH26, times the result by 50% and that is how this 8mp camera would look. The camera used is only a 15fps camera and I leave it there in all settings.
Also one thing to keep in mind if your camera is setup for VBR and you change to CBR that you might need to reboot the camera to get it to clear up 100% to the best it will be under CBR..
Also one thing to keep in mind if your camera is setup for VBR and you change to CBR that you might need to reboot the camera to get it to clear up 100% to the best it will be under CBR..
Be Safe.