I occasionally look at what Amcrest's latest offerings are, and man is the current lineup of NVRs confusing. Taking the 16-camera variant as an example, there's the original 4116, then there's the 5216 with an identical-looking set of specs on the web page but the addition of controls including a power button that are missing on the 4116, and finally the 4216AI with again an identical-looking set of specs on the web page, but despite being labelled a 4-series it looks like the 5-series. It's "smart" apparently (although comments on Amazon indicate that, alongside too many other things sold as "smart", it's not very), and costs more than twice as much as the 4116 that it's numerically closest to.
So what is the actual (significant) difference between these things? It seems like 5216 = 4116 + on/off switch, 4216 = 5216 + hit-and-miss "smart".
Confusing NVR model numbering
Re: Confusing NVR model numbering
Don't know where to start.. I don't work for Amcrest and not sure I have all the Answers to the reason or what and why of the Company.
In truth 4116 is older Model and has a few years of Generation behind it.. The 5216 in truth I think is a Sleeper Model. I say this because if you look at the Thermal Model that is Running on a 5216E -16p that machine is a AI NVR with 16port POE and the unit without the camera and thermal unit is 1400 usd... However looking at the 5216e - 8p there is nothing that states it is a AI NVR and the cost of the unit don't reflect that either... However might be one of the things that was still be developed when Covid hit and the first was released to help business with the Demand of Temps to work.. Looking at the system it says it can ID and take 12 Temps at the same time and is going to have if we think of the machines in your questions like Computers that one is going to be a Ultra Server Computer with the Xtreme CPU and 64gb of ram and 3080GTX GPU...
Where the 4216e-16p AI is a i7 with 16gb ram and 1080 gtx and because of this it can only do 2, 8mp cameras where the 5216 can do 7ch at 1 time...
Then to be honest I don't want to talk bad about the 4116-HS however it isn't even in the same ball park as the others above and in a since because they can depending on what model used might be like lets say Again in CPU world the 5216 and 4216 are in 10th GEN CPU where the 4116 is in 7th Gen and it does support a i7 and 32gb ram however while it is better in some ways then the 4216E-AI it is a Few GEN newer in Tech and the 4216 is AI so it has some of the extra power and lower ram working in the AI department and this makes it somewhat less when it comes to the ability to display 8mp cameras... However because of the Tech is a better machine and why the price difference also below tells more of why
THen you asked about a Power button of the one and not the other and sadly between the 4116-hs and the 5216 and even the 4216 ai they are a much different system then the 4116 when it comes to power... They don't just include a Power button they have the PSU built into the machine and you plug a Computer type cable for a Computer Power supply into the NVR and the NVR has the Power Supply built into the machine...
So the 4116 and 4116E both are Ext Power supply aka PSU yet because the 4116e is POE it has a 48v power supply where the 4116 normal only has a 12v power supply...
Sadly the Naming is bad in most all of the USA line of Devices from all the brands.. I mean sure there is a couple of people out there that have 10 cameras and 4 recorders and all of them are very high in Price and have some VERY crazy odd names and no one unit looks like the other but they are smaller and don't carry 2k items for sale..
In the End Amcrest has a Lot of Devices they offer to make sure that someone can find what they need a a good price that is a SOLID product.. Sadly some of the people that talk Trash about new hardware is people that don't understand it... I have had many different Types of AI from 2012 up and while the Tech of yester year is nothing like it is today it seems it was just ROCK solid and worked right out of the BOX... However to be Fair I am talking about a Camera that Cost MORE then my 8ch AI dvr and 16ch AI NVR together... So then for me anyway you take what you known for last 7 to 8 years and try to apply to the hardware today and it is very hard to understand and or to get it to work right... So when people talk about it not working I am sorry I have seen the way some of the people treat the Devices, and the way they try and setup the devices and then they talk trash because it didn't work right..
For me Yes I had my 4216E-AI saying the house across the street and the tree up 300 feet away from my home as people and at the same time even caught a Truck turning the corner as a person however in the area of where I wanted the system to do Face Detect it never once captured a face having 10 Deliveries, my son or myself taking out the pups never once detected our face... As of today it does only Capture our faces and that of Drivers that are making Deliveries and is now working as expected... Sure it took me Resetting the NVR 6+ times and my AI camera 4+ times and to be honest I am not sure why it is working right.. Only difference is last Reset was done while still connected to the NVR and Setup from within the NVR all the times before that I reset the camera while connected to my POE Switch outside the NVR...
Now to be honest, I bought the 7108 AI DVR and after it got here and see that all my cameras work at 30FPS I now wish I would have bought the 5116 AI as the numbers on the Web led me to believe that the DVR was only going to do 7fps on the 5116 on my TVI and 15 fps on my 7108 however that is the FPS for the 4k cameras if using BNC 4k cameras and all of mine are 5mp or lower... 5mp runs at 20fps so that is a large jump from my TVI recorder that only did 15fps for my TVI 1080p and 7fps for my 5mp...
Again the Smart motion detection I am going to say the people need to Dial back the FOV and try to capture things within the systems DORI sometimes the people might be using the wrong camera for the wrong reason
In truth 4116 is older Model and has a few years of Generation behind it.. The 5216 in truth I think is a Sleeper Model. I say this because if you look at the Thermal Model that is Running on a 5216E -16p that machine is a AI NVR with 16port POE and the unit without the camera and thermal unit is 1400 usd... However looking at the 5216e - 8p there is nothing that states it is a AI NVR and the cost of the unit don't reflect that either... However might be one of the things that was still be developed when Covid hit and the first was released to help business with the Demand of Temps to work.. Looking at the system it says it can ID and take 12 Temps at the same time and is going to have if we think of the machines in your questions like Computers that one is going to be a Ultra Server Computer with the Xtreme CPU and 64gb of ram and 3080GTX GPU...
Where the 4216e-16p AI is a i7 with 16gb ram and 1080 gtx and because of this it can only do 2, 8mp cameras where the 5216 can do 7ch at 1 time...
Then to be honest I don't want to talk bad about the 4116-HS however it isn't even in the same ball park as the others above and in a since because they can depending on what model used might be like lets say Again in CPU world the 5216 and 4216 are in 10th GEN CPU where the 4116 is in 7th Gen and it does support a i7 and 32gb ram however while it is better in some ways then the 4216E-AI it is a Few GEN newer in Tech and the 4216 is AI so it has some of the extra power and lower ram working in the AI department and this makes it somewhat less when it comes to the ability to display 8mp cameras... However because of the Tech is a better machine and why the price difference also below tells more of why
THen you asked about a Power button of the one and not the other and sadly between the 4116-hs and the 5216 and even the 4216 ai they are a much different system then the 4116 when it comes to power... They don't just include a Power button they have the PSU built into the machine and you plug a Computer type cable for a Computer Power supply into the NVR and the NVR has the Power Supply built into the machine...
So the 4116 and 4116E both are Ext Power supply aka PSU yet because the 4116e is POE it has a 48v power supply where the 4116 normal only has a 12v power supply...
Sadly the Naming is bad in most all of the USA line of Devices from all the brands.. I mean sure there is a couple of people out there that have 10 cameras and 4 recorders and all of them are very high in Price and have some VERY crazy odd names and no one unit looks like the other but they are smaller and don't carry 2k items for sale..
In the End Amcrest has a Lot of Devices they offer to make sure that someone can find what they need a a good price that is a SOLID product.. Sadly some of the people that talk Trash about new hardware is people that don't understand it... I have had many different Types of AI from 2012 up and while the Tech of yester year is nothing like it is today it seems it was just ROCK solid and worked right out of the BOX... However to be Fair I am talking about a Camera that Cost MORE then my 8ch AI dvr and 16ch AI NVR together... So then for me anyway you take what you known for last 7 to 8 years and try to apply to the hardware today and it is very hard to understand and or to get it to work right... So when people talk about it not working I am sorry I have seen the way some of the people treat the Devices, and the way they try and setup the devices and then they talk trash because it didn't work right..
For me Yes I had my 4216E-AI saying the house across the street and the tree up 300 feet away from my home as people and at the same time even caught a Truck turning the corner as a person however in the area of where I wanted the system to do Face Detect it never once captured a face having 10 Deliveries, my son or myself taking out the pups never once detected our face... As of today it does only Capture our faces and that of Drivers that are making Deliveries and is now working as expected... Sure it took me Resetting the NVR 6+ times and my AI camera 4+ times and to be honest I am not sure why it is working right.. Only difference is last Reset was done while still connected to the NVR and Setup from within the NVR all the times before that I reset the camera while connected to my POE Switch outside the NVR...
Now to be honest, I bought the 7108 AI DVR and after it got here and see that all my cameras work at 30FPS I now wish I would have bought the 5116 AI as the numbers on the Web led me to believe that the DVR was only going to do 7fps on the 5116 on my TVI and 15 fps on my 7108 however that is the FPS for the 4k cameras if using BNC 4k cameras and all of mine are 5mp or lower... 5mp runs at 20fps so that is a large jump from my TVI recorder that only did 15fps for my TVI 1080p and 7fps for my 5mp...
Again the Smart motion detection I am going to say the people need to Dial back the FOV and try to capture things within the systems DORI sometimes the people might be using the wrong camera for the wrong reason
Be Safe.
Re: Confusing NVR model numbering
I've got a friend who has the original Dahua-branded version of the 5xxx AFAIK, but that has at least the tripwire feature being advertised for the -AI series while the 5xxx doesn't seem to have it. It's not helped by the fact that the 5xxx manual is just the 4xxx manual with two extra pages added to mention the 5xxx, thus my comment that "the 5xxx is a 4xxx with an on/off switch" - that's an awfully big premium to pay for an on/off swtich.
Not sure if the AI's facial recognition will be too useful for most people, it seems like it was developed for a specific purpose like recognising store employees or something, so more (human) inventory tracking than security. OTOH the tripwire feature is amazing, and well worth paying for if the older scene-change-based detection doesn't work for you. However from the Dahua web page:
Not sure if the AI's facial recognition will be too useful for most people, it seems like it was developed for a specific purpose like recognising store employees or something, so more (human) inventory tracking than security. OTOH the tripwire feature is amazing, and well worth paying for if the older scene-change-based detection doesn't work for you. However from the Dahua web page:
which looks like it means both a new NVR and cameras.Both the NVR and the IP camera should support the IVS function, otherwise the feature will not work. So, it won’t work if your camera is regular and the NVR supports IVS.
Re: Confusing NVR model numbering
Again the NVR with 5xxx isn't just a On off switch it has the Power supply in the NVR when the 41xx has a 12v power supply and to be fair why would a NVR need a Power switch? Once a NVR or DVR is powered on and in Work mode there is very little reason to have a Switch... With the Switch in the off mode it is no longer doing it's job..
Not sure I understand the IVS part...
I think my talking about 2 different Amcrest products might have confused the reply..
The DVR 7108AI that I was talking about IVS not working when IP is turned on is different from the NVR there are some things built into the NVR already like the DVR.. However when using a AI camera it can add more things for use some things people have listed I has a few things I have not had before and are not in my AI camera..
Not sure I understand the IVS part...
I think my talking about 2 different Amcrest products might have confused the reply..
The DVR 7108AI that I was talking about IVS not working when IP is turned on is different from the NVR there are some things built into the NVR already like the DVR.. However when using a AI camera it can add more things for use some things people have listed I has a few things I have not had before and are not in my AI camera..
Be Safe.
Re: Confusing NVR model numbering
So here is some info that might be important to others... So I have a Dahua semi Smart 4mp camera and I had it connected to another NVR thought ok let me see what happens if I connect to the 4216 in a Factory reset state and then setup line crossing..
I have my NVR setup for Face Detection so the IVS is off..
However the cool thing is, I Connected the camera on Port 5 removing my 841E that was connected there.. Then logged into the NVR WebUI. Then Went to log in to the camera and thought seeing it was Reset that I would have to connect to admin admin however it setup the Camera Auto and pushed in my Password that I have setup on the NVR as well.. Logged in the camera and setup Line Crossing, it pulled in to the NVR that the camera is setup for line crossing and shows the line on the WebUI of the camera and NVR as well as the NVR GUI.. So within the normal setup of the NVR Face Detect or IVS can be turned on however with a camera with IVS it seems that it can be setup different from the way the NVR is setup...
I have my NVR setup for Face Detection so the IVS is off..
However the cool thing is, I Connected the camera on Port 5 removing my 841E that was connected there.. Then logged into the NVR WebUI. Then Went to log in to the camera and thought seeing it was Reset that I would have to connect to admin admin however it setup the Camera Auto and pushed in my Password that I have setup on the NVR as well.. Logged in the camera and setup Line Crossing, it pulled in to the NVR that the camera is setup for line crossing and shows the line on the WebUI of the camera and NVR as well as the NVR GUI.. So within the normal setup of the NVR Face Detect or IVS can be turned on however with a camera with IVS it seems that it can be setup different from the way the NVR is setup...
Be Safe.
Re: Confusing NVR model numbering
So you can do a clean shutdown if you need to make any changes, there's a thread somewhere on here that goes into this. For the 4-series NVRs, the only way to make any changes to them is to yank out the power cord, which is pretty unhealthy for Linux systems.
IVS = (Dahua) Intelligent Video Surveillance, the thing that makes the tripwire/face detection/etc work. Just had a look at my friend's Dahua, which is a 52xx that seems to be the same function as the Amcrest 42xx, and their advertising talks about ANPR and POS monitoring. This seems to confirm my guess as to what the "AI" part is targeted at, it's for commercial applications rather than general/home security. The only feature for general security use is tripwire.
Re: Confusing NVR model numbering
Sadly this isn't the case.. I have a load of Dahua Products that have the POS option and some others and they are way before the Smart devices.. I have a 8ch 4 port POE NVR from Dahua that also has it that is from 2013.. Even some of my Dahua Cameras offer it
With Amcrest I am guessing that is parts that isn't needed for the target people they are working with and have the firmware made without the options even though they could be added back in at some point later if needed...
The 52xx is a Up model of the 42xx and one of the things about the one over the other is the ability to Display/encode more streams of 4k cameras over the other so on the 42xx while it does look like the 52xx in the way it was built for POE with the Power supply being built into the unit rather then the 4116 and 4116E that has it outside the unit...
So I have a few other older Model Amcrest NVRs and while I will agree that having a Power button to shut down is cool I am not sure of any model that don't have the SHUT DOWN function within the NVR.. Going to the Shut down and then the Screen tells you it is safe to Remove Power there is no issue with UNIX aka Linux and or the main issue I would worry about isn't the Software I would be more worried about my HDD spinning seeing it is always until shut down... However once it is in Shut down mode there is no issue removing the Power cord... Sadly who ever told you that you will damage your NVR if it don't power off is Mistaken.. The Linux system that is in the NVR and even DVR's and Cameras are not in a State of HDD or MSD and has no dis-function of Power loss.. What does a Good Shut down offer? A Parked HDD and a System Flush if a Thumb drive is plugged in.. If there is no Thumb Drive then there is no FLUSH...
IT is MISINFORMATION to say that power loss to the NVR will Damage the OS it is HARD CODED into the ROM and it never writes to it unless your doing a FW update and any system with that will damage the OS if power is loss in the middle of a Update...
With Amcrest I am guessing that is parts that isn't needed for the target people they are working with and have the firmware made without the options even though they could be added back in at some point later if needed...
The 52xx is a Up model of the 42xx and one of the things about the one over the other is the ability to Display/encode more streams of 4k cameras over the other so on the 42xx while it does look like the 52xx in the way it was built for POE with the Power supply being built into the unit rather then the 4116 and 4116E that has it outside the unit...
So I have a few other older Model Amcrest NVRs and while I will agree that having a Power button to shut down is cool I am not sure of any model that don't have the SHUT DOWN function within the NVR.. Going to the Shut down and then the Screen tells you it is safe to Remove Power there is no issue with UNIX aka Linux and or the main issue I would worry about isn't the Software I would be more worried about my HDD spinning seeing it is always until shut down... However once it is in Shut down mode there is no issue removing the Power cord... Sadly who ever told you that you will damage your NVR if it don't power off is Mistaken.. The Linux system that is in the NVR and even DVR's and Cameras are not in a State of HDD or MSD and has no dis-function of Power loss.. What does a Good Shut down offer? A Parked HDD and a System Flush if a Thumb drive is plugged in.. If there is no Thumb Drive then there is no FLUSH...
IT is MISINFORMATION to say that power loss to the NVR will Damage the OS it is HARD CODED into the ROM and it never writes to it unless your doing a FW update and any system with that will damage the OS if power is loss in the middle of a Update...
Be Safe.
Re: Confusing NVR model numbering
So I thought I would seeing you mention this thread in a different question asking about what they should buy in there needs not really related to your thread with confusing numbering.. But I could show you more models I own if needed this was first I have accessed since you mention and this is the newest of the models I own.. (Not this is a NEW Dahua by any means) you can see in this model it has the POS feature isn't a AI and to be honest Amcrest I am going to guess because the need for Retail might not be their target I am going to guess is why they Elect to Remove the POS/ATM feature from their line up.. I will admit I think I did have one DVR from Amcrest back in 2015 that had the POS menu before a Update in FW removed it,, It has been long time so I am not 100% sure if that is FACT my old Brain isn't as sharp as it once was...
- DahuaID.png (58.9 KiB) Viewed 3689 times
- DahuaPOS.png (105.22 KiB) Viewed 3689 times
Be Safe.