Hello,
Long time Amcrest user & installer, first time using the forum. I am an IT guy with 30+ years of doing consulting work for clients, often working with differing subnets/VLANS and understand networking very well.
I install several Amcrest systems a year on a private basis for my clients (both residential and commercial), I really like how easy the setup is to configure in the GUI as well as setting up and using the mobile app. I called Amcrest support today and was not happy with the answers given to me regarding several recent installs and I am looking for a new opinion as to what may be going on with a couple installs. I have 4 clients within 2 weeks that have called me, stating either cameras have dropped off from both the physical display directly attached to the NVR (shoing message cannot connect to camera) same issue on the mobile app. In particular case, one or two if the original cameras stay intact on the same channel, another one or two channels are duplicate views of the working streams and the rest are gone with the "cannot connect" message. If I go in the GUI, I can see all the cams that were initially configured in the lower part of the camera list, mostly red status, with all the missing cameras in the unconfigured portion, waiting to be added back to the recorder. if I add them, the naming gets jacked up and the previous "not found" cameras sit there red status until removed from the list. Cameras are not one particular model, I do a lot of 5MP and 8MP turret cameras, but have also seen this in the bullets as well. When I get to the site and test, there's no IP conflicts, but obviously a router won't issue the same IP to a MAC, post-reboot.
I will start by saying most all my installations within the past 5 years are network based recorders/POE cams, with an occasional analog install here and there for adapting to tight customer budgets. All my recorders have a high end surge suppressor (3500+ joules rating) as the first line of defense for the devices, as well as a UPS to keep devices running during short term power outages. I deal with a varying mix of internet connectivity types: cable internet, fiber internet, business grade dedicated circuits, Tmobile's cellular internet and Starlink internet to name a few. When at all possible, I encourage my clients to use their own routers and enable "transparent bridge" on the provider's equipment, because many times, the providers routing gear offers very limited control of the advanced settings in the routers. I am a HUGE fan of doing reservations for devices like these using IP's above 200 when at all possible on residential netowrks, in whatever the scope range the customer is on for the LAN.
Given my issue with cameras dropping out, combined with providers like Starlink and TMobile, that refuse to give customers the granular control of setting up DHCP reservations, how do you suggest I combat this issue? I have considered just hard coding the cameras and the recorder in the .225 and up IP range, but I have seen where Tmobile will randomly issue IP's high in the DHCP range for no obvious reason, even though the router may only have 10-15 devices total connected to the wifi and nothing is connected on the wired side prior to me installing a POE switch and connecting the camera gear to the LAN port on the TMobile router.
Hopefully I didn't miss any of the fine details, but the tech I spoke to today, says it's a network instability and to go to the internet provider and ask for help there or call Amcrest for support while at the customer's site for remote help. I believe the issue has a lot to do with the local routers not being UPS protected and after a reboot, the leases on the devices expire and then get new IP's. (in one case yesterday, problem showed up after Starlink did a router firmware update and rebooted) My issue is once a camera is brought into an NVR and is the master for camera administration, why do these cameras not just rejoin the camera channel initally setup by the recorder? I would hope Amcrest is not using the IP as the main factor for the reconnect. It should be looking for items like MAC address and device serial number, but if the recorder is also given a new IP, then the camera may never know how to "phone home" back to the recorder if it has a new IP address as well, complicating the setup. I am not really a fan with NVR's having the POE switch built into the recorder because then you have to pull all your wires to it, complicating the installs. Many times I do whole house installs and the customer has a remote garage, shed or building 200 or 300 feet away and they want to have cameras in that location also pushing to the recorder in the house. This is why I like the NV4216, one LAN port, can house two large SATA drives, offering longer recording days for 5 and 8 MP cameras.
Your help is much appreciated!
PCJack
Amcrest 4K NV4216-EI 16CH NVR - Keeps losing cameras
Re: Amcrest 4K NV4216-EI 16CH NVR - Keeps losing cameras
Also wanted to note that the Amcrest tech wanted me to go to the site and do a reset on each camera using the reset hole, which means taking a ladder back to the client's location after hours and doing the resets before testing again.
Re: Amcrest 4K NV4216-EI 16CH NVR - Keeps losing cameras
Have many different Amcrest NVRs.. 2108E-HS, 4108E-HS, 4116E-HS, 4216E-AI, 4216-E1, 5232E-16P-4KS2 and 4108-A2.. While I have had a few others that I gave away 2116-HS, 4108-HS the reason I gave them away is because they were missing the most important part E aka POE..
Now I will admit that using POE on all my NVRs are not 100% a go to thing for me. However if I had TMobile or Starlink I would never put my IP cameras and NVR on their JUNK internet system without it being on a POE NVR.. 1 IP for the NVR and the rest are on their own network that never changes unless the NVR was to make that change.. Or the User.. Where lets say in my case and my over 50 connected camera devices. If I had them all connected to my LAN side only I would have some Networking issues. Large headache with having to remember cameras IP and so many other things that I have to worry about already with multi POE Connected NVRs.. I have Win11 and Win10 machines with Multi IP addresses setup so when I am working on a POE camera that I move over to one of my POE or POE+ Switches I can just log in to the camera as the IP sits from the NVR.. Because the NVRs are static ssetup as 10.1.1.xx from factory I have setup my POE NVR switches to use my LAN IP into my NVRs Switch IP setup so I know where that camera belongs.. For instance. Working on a camera right now taken off my 10.0.0.223 NVR.. Device number is 223, POE IP is 10.2.23.xx and IP camera ip I am working on is 10.2.23.131 and my computer that I am typing from now is normally 10.0.0.119 but while connected to that IP camera that I moved from the NVR to my Network POE switch My camera thinks the ip that is connecting to it is 10.2.23.119 and that IP is also setup in my Network settings along with all my other Switch IP settings..
For me I have 4 Routers on my network. Main one from my ISP that I don't use with many devices. 3 to 4 that are in my Livingroom. The rest are after that and have no local connection to the main besides Internet connection. Then use Nighthawk Routers for my main and most of my other routers but do have 1 long range outdoor Engenius router that I use for one of my NVRs to connect with my LAN.. that is remote to my current location just less then 4 miles line of sight or the way of the Birds flying,.. Anyway My network I also have 3 24 port Network switches and 3 mini POE POE+ and POE+++ swithes that are not managed the 24 ports are..
In short I can connect all my POE devices to my Lan no issue and connect them to my Amcrest NVRs using that single Port you mentioned even on my POE NVrs.. But that is loads of Cameras that would be open to issues that you are talking about.. IP changes caused by Routers of companies that Never mind I keep that to my self lol.. Anyway 1 thing however missing with all that.. All my cameras POE NVR connected or not all have 1 thing in common they are on a Static IP Leave on DHCP then trouble can and will happen.. The connection method to the NVR of a normal NVR is IP connections. You search for and setup the camera on the LAN IP to the NVRs Lan IP in the same Network range.. Only 2 NVRs support Bridge MODE Switch Connection and I don''t use that feature of the NVR because don't want the cameras that are connected to the POE ports of the NVR to be exposed to my LAN.. That is the PLUS of having POE NVRs.. All cameras connect to dedicated Switch of the NVR.. Only 1 IP that you would need to worry about and with P2P enabled and setup even with the NEVER MIND ISP could most times make connections to the NVR and be able to see and access my Cameras local and remote without an issue.. Only 1 IP of the NVR would need to be managed with POE NVRs..
Using the Dahua IP Tool at the NVRs Location could lacces the Camears current IP and change to the Local IP of the NVRs Cameras need to be setup on a Static IP connected to a Managed or normal Switch that can work even if not able to access local after router reboots.. As I said all my cameras work on my Local Area Network side becasue of the way I have my computer setup to access my cameras that I take form my POE NVR and connect to my LAN even though my main IP is 10.0.0.xxx range.. I have NVrs on 192.168.x.x and 172.16.x.x and 10.1.1.x. 10.2.23.x, 10.22.2.x and some others.. Have my own Linux NTP server that all my NVRs and DVRs use for time so all my times are all same Minute and second so I can look up footage and be able to look other footage without having to wait for that correct moment in time to happen in a different recorder..
In Short. Get the Dahua IP camera Tools and setup your cameras with Static IP for a Static IP of the NVR.. Get a Router for the NVR and Cameras if you have to use normal non POE NVrs.. Don't rely on JunkLINK or Tmobile routers.. IF they rely on the routers that they come with it will only lead to issues.. I would personally Never support service on a Router that I don't own and access.. Even my main router from my ISP I own and I control the data on the LAN side.. My IP is Staic and have not changed for over 8 years..
Now I will admit that using POE on all my NVRs are not 100% a go to thing for me. However if I had TMobile or Starlink I would never put my IP cameras and NVR on their JUNK internet system without it being on a POE NVR.. 1 IP for the NVR and the rest are on their own network that never changes unless the NVR was to make that change.. Or the User.. Where lets say in my case and my over 50 connected camera devices. If I had them all connected to my LAN side only I would have some Networking issues. Large headache with having to remember cameras IP and so many other things that I have to worry about already with multi POE Connected NVRs.. I have Win11 and Win10 machines with Multi IP addresses setup so when I am working on a POE camera that I move over to one of my POE or POE+ Switches I can just log in to the camera as the IP sits from the NVR.. Because the NVRs are static ssetup as 10.1.1.xx from factory I have setup my POE NVR switches to use my LAN IP into my NVRs Switch IP setup so I know where that camera belongs.. For instance. Working on a camera right now taken off my 10.0.0.223 NVR.. Device number is 223, POE IP is 10.2.23.xx and IP camera ip I am working on is 10.2.23.131 and my computer that I am typing from now is normally 10.0.0.119 but while connected to that IP camera that I moved from the NVR to my Network POE switch My camera thinks the ip that is connecting to it is 10.2.23.119 and that IP is also setup in my Network settings along with all my other Switch IP settings..
For me I have 4 Routers on my network. Main one from my ISP that I don't use with many devices. 3 to 4 that are in my Livingroom. The rest are after that and have no local connection to the main besides Internet connection. Then use Nighthawk Routers for my main and most of my other routers but do have 1 long range outdoor Engenius router that I use for one of my NVRs to connect with my LAN.. that is remote to my current location just less then 4 miles line of sight or the way of the Birds flying,.. Anyway My network I also have 3 24 port Network switches and 3 mini POE POE+ and POE+++ swithes that are not managed the 24 ports are..
In short I can connect all my POE devices to my Lan no issue and connect them to my Amcrest NVRs using that single Port you mentioned even on my POE NVrs.. But that is loads of Cameras that would be open to issues that you are talking about.. IP changes caused by Routers of companies that Never mind I keep that to my self lol.. Anyway 1 thing however missing with all that.. All my cameras POE NVR connected or not all have 1 thing in common they are on a Static IP Leave on DHCP then trouble can and will happen.. The connection method to the NVR of a normal NVR is IP connections. You search for and setup the camera on the LAN IP to the NVRs Lan IP in the same Network range.. Only 2 NVRs support Bridge MODE Switch Connection and I don''t use that feature of the NVR because don't want the cameras that are connected to the POE ports of the NVR to be exposed to my LAN.. That is the PLUS of having POE NVRs.. All cameras connect to dedicated Switch of the NVR.. Only 1 IP that you would need to worry about and with P2P enabled and setup even with the NEVER MIND ISP could most times make connections to the NVR and be able to see and access my Cameras local and remote without an issue.. Only 1 IP of the NVR would need to be managed with POE NVRs..
Using the Dahua IP Tool at the NVRs Location could lacces the Camears current IP and change to the Local IP of the NVRs Cameras need to be setup on a Static IP connected to a Managed or normal Switch that can work even if not able to access local after router reboots.. As I said all my cameras work on my Local Area Network side becasue of the way I have my computer setup to access my cameras that I take form my POE NVR and connect to my LAN even though my main IP is 10.0.0.xxx range.. I have NVrs on 192.168.x.x and 172.16.x.x and 10.1.1.x. 10.2.23.x, 10.22.2.x and some others.. Have my own Linux NTP server that all my NVRs and DVRs use for time so all my times are all same Minute and second so I can look up footage and be able to look other footage without having to wait for that correct moment in time to happen in a different recorder..
In Short. Get the Dahua IP camera Tools and setup your cameras with Static IP for a Static IP of the NVR.. Get a Router for the NVR and Cameras if you have to use normal non POE NVrs.. Don't rely on JunkLINK or Tmobile routers.. IF they rely on the routers that they come with it will only lead to issues.. I would personally Never support service on a Router that I don't own and access.. Even my main router from my ISP I own and I control the data on the LAN side.. My IP is Staic and have not changed for over 8 years..
Be Safe.
Re: Amcrest 4K NV4216-EI 16CH NVR - Keeps losing cameras
Thanks for the lenthgy and well explaied reply, you confirmed my complexity and "junk" router concerns.
For the Starlink customer, he has no other option for decent internet. Because of his location, the only local carrier option is DSL which is only rated at up to 100mbps (YUK!), but in reality they only get about 60mbps throughput for a family of 6 to share and the dad works from home online, no bueno. The other reason for the NON-POE DVR is because not only does he have a steel building poined right at Ethernet's 100M cable length limit, literraly within 10ft. His Starlink router does not provide a strong enough signal for his devices to get wifi in that building, signal drops right at the concrete pad for the building. That being said, by installing an 8-port switch in the space, we added a nice Zyxel AP to augment the wifi coverage as well as support any other new IP cameras/devices he wants to add in the future. In most homes, I agree that a POE-DVR makes life easier, but I seem to get the more tricky jobs because the local budget camera installers do not have the networking experience to understand subnetting or complex distance + flexibility offerings to meet all their wants.
For the customer on T-Mobile, it's a temp option until they decide what they are doing with the space setup, it's post-construction commercial space, waiting on all the permanent CO's to be issued by the city. Several pieces are still in play, so until they get something better, I get to be the James Bond and provide a camera system that is relatively easy to use, not stupid expensive and is stable/reliable. For both of these customers, I have to go hard code the devices, hoping the Starlink/T-Mobile routers are smart enough to detect the network traffic on the gateway and NOT issue DHCP address and have IP conflicts.
For the other two customers with this camera dropping issue, they're on Spectrum cable internet and they both are using their own advanced routers plugged directly into the cable modems, so I am going shorten the DHCP scope exclude from 192.168.X.225 and up from the DHCP range and hard code NVR/Cams and walk away knowing it'll always just work until a true catastrophic event takes place. The reason for the hard code vs reservations is because if they ever replace the router, I won't have to redo the reservations, only adjust the DHCP scope range, no extra work involved. As long as the NVR and POE switch stays up, they will always still have a running camera system. This is also the same reason why I like Amcrest's mobile setup - no monkeying inside the routers for port forwarding (or DDNS in some cases), it just simply works.
I have multiple Amcrest cameras on my own home and downloaded the Dahua tool this morning and am pleased with how quickly and how well it works, both for jumping to the web panel as well as how quickly you can hard set the IP's. Up until today, I never realized that Dahua was OEM platform for Amcrest. Does the IP change require a camera reboot after the change on the Amcrest cameras? At this point, I at least have a gameplan. Many thanks!
James Bond, out!
For the Starlink customer, he has no other option for decent internet. Because of his location, the only local carrier option is DSL which is only rated at up to 100mbps (YUK!), but in reality they only get about 60mbps throughput for a family of 6 to share and the dad works from home online, no bueno. The other reason for the NON-POE DVR is because not only does he have a steel building poined right at Ethernet's 100M cable length limit, literraly within 10ft. His Starlink router does not provide a strong enough signal for his devices to get wifi in that building, signal drops right at the concrete pad for the building. That being said, by installing an 8-port switch in the space, we added a nice Zyxel AP to augment the wifi coverage as well as support any other new IP cameras/devices he wants to add in the future. In most homes, I agree that a POE-DVR makes life easier, but I seem to get the more tricky jobs because the local budget camera installers do not have the networking experience to understand subnetting or complex distance + flexibility offerings to meet all their wants.
For the customer on T-Mobile, it's a temp option until they decide what they are doing with the space setup, it's post-construction commercial space, waiting on all the permanent CO's to be issued by the city. Several pieces are still in play, so until they get something better, I get to be the James Bond and provide a camera system that is relatively easy to use, not stupid expensive and is stable/reliable. For both of these customers, I have to go hard code the devices, hoping the Starlink/T-Mobile routers are smart enough to detect the network traffic on the gateway and NOT issue DHCP address and have IP conflicts.
For the other two customers with this camera dropping issue, they're on Spectrum cable internet and they both are using their own advanced routers plugged directly into the cable modems, so I am going shorten the DHCP scope exclude from 192.168.X.225 and up from the DHCP range and hard code NVR/Cams and walk away knowing it'll always just work until a true catastrophic event takes place. The reason for the hard code vs reservations is because if they ever replace the router, I won't have to redo the reservations, only adjust the DHCP scope range, no extra work involved. As long as the NVR and POE switch stays up, they will always still have a running camera system. This is also the same reason why I like Amcrest's mobile setup - no monkeying inside the routers for port forwarding (or DDNS in some cases), it just simply works.
I have multiple Amcrest cameras on my own home and downloaded the Dahua tool this morning and am pleased with how quickly and how well it works, both for jumping to the web panel as well as how quickly you can hard set the IP's. Up until today, I never realized that Dahua was OEM platform for Amcrest. Does the IP change require a camera reboot after the change on the Amcrest cameras? At this point, I at least have a gameplan. Many thanks!
James Bond, out!
Re: Amcrest 4K NV4216-EI 16CH NVR - Keeps losing cameras
BTW, I never did figure out why the 2 Spectrum customers had issues but I have not had to go to their sites yet, Reboots of everything fixed them. My only guess I did not set reservations in the router for the Non-POE recorders and cameras. Previously, I was primarily installing POE ready NVR's before all these complex installs came up. One location had some random "everything has puked" situation as the customer put it. I never did ask if the internet provider had to replace their equipment or not. I believe they got hit by a surge because although the camera system was OK, the secondary ireless AP in the far end of the building, would not boot. Had to do a factory reset and restore the config file to it to get it going again. Netgear router was toast, had to replace it. Will be doing static's on all his cameras this evening.
Speaking of Netgear routers, in case anyone else reading this post has same situation - cameras/NVR's suddely going unavailable from app over the internet and also suddenly no internet for devices on the local network, eventually leading to no network at premesis at all - sometime in either late 2023/early 2024, Netgear released a bad firmware for certain model routers. This is my best timeframe guess because I cannot find the release dates for the firmware on the Netgear website. Not only this same site in my second post had this issue, but my personal router was also the Netgear Nighhawk XR500. The jacked firmware update that was installed doesn't show it's ugly face for weeks before you have a situation. When you finally realize you have no internet, you reboot the router and it comes back as working, but then a few weeks later it repeats. For some reason, firmware versions after Version 2.3.2.114 have a DHCP service issue where it suddenly stops working. I did a deep dive on the issue and initially thought it was my internet provider, but fiber came available in my area and I switched from Comcast to Quantum fiber. Set my service to bridge mode, plugged in my own router and off I went, no major reconfig to my netowrk needed. A few weeks after the fiber install, lost internet during the work day. Rebooted the router and it came back right away. I became suspicious and the after it happened several more times, I decided on the next outage, as long as I had the time, I would do some digging before rebooting the router. The next time it happened, I logged into the router to dig around and noticed it dropped the WAN IP, by reviewing the router logs, I was able to see it was attempting to renew an expired IP lease from upstream, but failed. In one particular case at one of my client's sites - If the location is not in use enough (vacation home), the local devices stop receiving new DHCP leases on the LAN side as well when that service pukes rendering cameras on DHCP assigned IP's to fail. If you're using Non-POE recorders, your streams stop and there's no recorderd data. Keep in mind internet providers dictate the lease expiry for WAN devices, on your local LAN, the lease lengths can different, depending on the manufacturer of the router. Most are 24 hours, but have seen where some are a week or more and if a user changes it, could be even more. I rolled my formware back to the 2.3.2.114 verion and the problem went away.
Hope this info helps someone else!
Speaking of Netgear routers, in case anyone else reading this post has same situation - cameras/NVR's suddely going unavailable from app over the internet and also suddenly no internet for devices on the local network, eventually leading to no network at premesis at all - sometime in either late 2023/early 2024, Netgear released a bad firmware for certain model routers. This is my best timeframe guess because I cannot find the release dates for the firmware on the Netgear website. Not only this same site in my second post had this issue, but my personal router was also the Netgear Nighhawk XR500. The jacked firmware update that was installed doesn't show it's ugly face for weeks before you have a situation. When you finally realize you have no internet, you reboot the router and it comes back as working, but then a few weeks later it repeats. For some reason, firmware versions after Version 2.3.2.114 have a DHCP service issue where it suddenly stops working. I did a deep dive on the issue and initially thought it was my internet provider, but fiber came available in my area and I switched from Comcast to Quantum fiber. Set my service to bridge mode, plugged in my own router and off I went, no major reconfig to my netowrk needed. A few weeks after the fiber install, lost internet during the work day. Rebooted the router and it came back right away. I became suspicious and the after it happened several more times, I decided on the next outage, as long as I had the time, I would do some digging before rebooting the router. The next time it happened, I logged into the router to dig around and noticed it dropped the WAN IP, by reviewing the router logs, I was able to see it was attempting to renew an expired IP lease from upstream, but failed. In one particular case at one of my client's sites - If the location is not in use enough (vacation home), the local devices stop receiving new DHCP leases on the LAN side as well when that service pukes rendering cameras on DHCP assigned IP's to fail. If you're using Non-POE recorders, your streams stop and there's no recorderd data. Keep in mind internet providers dictate the lease expiry for WAN devices, on your local LAN, the lease lengths can different, depending on the manufacturer of the router. Most are 24 hours, but have seen where some are a week or more and if a user changes it, could be even more. I rolled my formware back to the 2.3.2.114 verion and the problem went away.
Hope this info helps someone else!