Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Revo2Maxx »

You know what I went ahead and added it anyway..

first one when I am talking about having the Smart Codec turned on and showing the results in different formats of the feed while using IE..
https://youtu.be/dn8mR2r8oAw

Here is Chrome, I did cut it short because my Wife in the other room got a phone call so didn't want to keep her from talking to finish and didn't want her talking while I was making the Video lol
https://youtu.be/N1Vb1i4QcJs
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Revo2Maxx »

So here is some interesting info.. While it isn't 100% it does have some idea about Browser issues while using h>265. This is my 7108-AI DVR on my 2mp 10x zoom camera from 2017 or 16 sorry I have a few of them and some bought in 16 other in 17 and not sure what one this is but one of them 2 years.. I start this video in Chrome with H.265 on. I also show the DVR GUI in a window to see what I am talking about the delay. Much after the car went past but enough time to see that there is delay using Chrome and no Delay while using IE in this video..

https://youtu.be/5-qhyhCf9wI
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ColColonCleaner
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Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by ColColonCleaner »

@Pogo Agreed, definitely get the feeling that these cameras are somehow upscaled 4k from a 1080 sensor, or something is wrong with the sensor/device as a whole. You're right it doesn't look like it's native 4k with all the smoothing artifacts going on. Also if I drop the resolution on these cameras down to 1080p the resulting video looks like 480p. Perhaps the batch I was sent was built incorrectly?

Also, not trying to be adversarial here as I'm really appreciative of the insight you're providing. Please keep that in mind as I'm saying this. Trying to wrap my head around the argument that these are somehow the wrong camera to use for this application. They are outdoor PoE security cameras that have a wide FOV, in order to capture swaths of the area around my house. There are images on the sale pages for these cameras with them on houses in nearly the same situations as mine, so I'm quite confused about this take on things. If there is an alternative I should be using that's better suited I would be very interested in what that is, and also how a consumer would know to purchase that over these. It's true there are hundreds of models at every conceivable price point, so if there is a trick to navigating through the sludge to find the gems beyond just looking at reviews I would like to know that.
Once again, not being adversarial, I'm wondering about the logic behind that take. What gives the implication that these cameras weren't made for this purpose?

On the topic of bitrate, I made the changes you suggested and here's a video of the result. Once again directly off the SD card on the camera.
Halfway through this video i crank the brightness on those outdoor lights up to maximum. That's 25 bulbs that are 40w equivalent LED within a few feet of the camera. Should be more than enough light, but the graininess is still there and pulses with the iframe, and the rocks in the background are warbling around. Something seems very wrong with this sensor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWB9vJQWqEc
There doesn't seem to be a magic setting that removes the sensor noise, digital snow, graininess, etc if we also don't want ghosting on all the motion. Sure I can crank the noise reduction up to maximum and that will look stellar in a freezeframe, but anything moving will be ghosting around.

I've stopped testing with H265 as it doesn't appear this camera has the processing power to encode H265 properly. Regardless of bitrate or playback method it always looks far worse than the H264 video.

@Revo2Maxx Looking at your videos they also have the sensor noise, but it's noticeably less than mine.

And yes just like you I also found enabling smart codec only made things worse, not better, so glad we're agreed on that.

Also, keep in mind, 3d noise reduction makes the picture look great when it's static. You mentioned how great things looked after turning it on and yes that's true but only when things aren't moving. Unfortunately the main thing we're trying to capture with security cameras is moving objects/people. I noticed when you turned the noise reduction off that we could see motion in the leaves on trees near to the camera, but with noise reduction enabled everything was smoothed and made motionless.

I'm not sure what is preventing your version of chrome from viewing the H265 stream. I know H265 has licensing issues so the support on browsers when there aren't plugins or players embedded in pages can be lacking. I'm using firefox and VLC on this side to view the footage and at least for me the H265 has come through fine in the viewing page, but firefox won't play the video if you open a raw mp4 with H265 encoding it will only play the audio. Also have a license for Vegas Pro so for giggles I opened the footage in that and it's identical down to the graininess/noise so thankfully this isn't a viewing issue on my side.
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Between 930am and 130pm turned into by the end of the day lol Just got my new camera 6pm. So not able to get things setup for testing much tonight. Unless I get lucky somehow and get it put out even if out to the Valley.. First off, Why did they have to have the Alarm turned on by default lol. WOW this camera is Huge compared to my 8mp Analog camera. Sure this has same Built in Mic, and then offers more things like Speaker, Micro SD slot but wow wasn't expecting this Turret to be this big lol. Took a picture don't look to big if you look at the mount look at the 2 balls of the turret..

First off the Video I have to say looks very nice not so nice if you Digital zoom however so far what I see on my Bench looks nice anyway.. Also the zoom in was to my monitor of another camera so it could be picking things up in there that I can't personally see so won't know until I get it mounted and do some testing..
20230605_181055.jpg
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

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So I don't know it is really hard to say at times what is a good camera because everyone has a different area of view and region of interest. So i did put the camera in the location behind the Dahua 8mp I was making my Videos with. The Amcrest camera is Amazing compared to the Dahua and it really should be seeing it has better Sensor to start with and semi pro compared to a Lite Dahua with Zoom. I mean wish the zoom was on the Amcrest to be honest.

Would I recommend the camera, I would. Can i say that it would work for your application? I hate to say this because I am not easy to be understood at times. The camera on your front porch is being asked to much of. The camera in the back yard I think the camera would be great there however the garage being there might be asking for a lot at different times of the day. The good news is that the camera has SSA so I would turn that on and it should be golden on the back yard. I am not sure even with SSA turned on that the camera would work well in the front porch because of the scene. Sorry I say front porch however I think that is the back porch. So I will just say the camera area where the Deck is that leads to your driveway. Not sure that camera would work well in that area trying to do all that you want it to do at that location.

However the camera a IP8M-TD2685EW-AI-GB not sure what the GB is lol but ok. Anyway is 200uSD and maybe is the kind of price you are looking to spend on a camera. Maybe buy one and another camera to try that is a Semi AI camera is a IP8M-2496EW-V2. It is a ok camera and does well for the price. I didn't have any issue while I had it on my back yard outside of spiders and bugs setting off the Rules because it didn't offer the Object filters. 2496 is a small bullet camera but has a nice picture. I have never looked at it without 3d turned on..

Here is a Video of the TD2685-EW-AI-GB that I made. Seeing the baby Doves Fledged yesterday I thought I would put this 8mp Turret camera behind the Dahua 8mp for a general idea of what it looks like in the same area That isn't were I will be mounting it just for testing..
https://youtu.be/Amjy60BIJvM
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Revo2Maxx »

So I thought I would also do another video at 120am to show what this camera that I picked up looks like at this hour. I did have it setup still on Color full time. Personally I think this camera is a win for 8mp and has changed my mind on what I have thought about 8mp for a long time.

I personally love it
https://youtu.be/hb8IfP4mxB8
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Pogo
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Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Pogo »

> not trying to be adversarial here...

Not taken that way. Revo's explanation of the camera's behavior v. the particular scene involved makes sense on a certain level just based on how a higher res camera works. Some work better than others under identical conditions which is usually reflected in their cost. That said, his video examples also provided ample evidence of how camera performance can be affected by a scene, a browser, and to a certain extent, the available processing ability of the downstream aspects and components rendering the final image. It's much easier for an image to naturally look bad than good when less than ideal conditions exist to process and display that image. A lot goes into producing a relatively clean image at any resolution, but there is generally more to 'fix' with higher resolutions simply by there being more pixels to accurately account for. Hence my reasoning for putting a fair amount of stock in his take on the subject -- and because he knows a lot about this stuff.

But I haven't given up exploring this a little further, unless you've thrown in the towel.

I'm curious if you have any other cameras on your network and what exactly you are using as your NVR solution -- along with more specifics about the network and main computer responsible for everything. Also, what do you typically use as your primary display?

And the SD card experiment aside, have you isolated one of the cameras (in factory default mode) from the network using a poe injector or poe switch plugged straight into a PC or laptop to eliminate all other network components from the mix of possible causes for the erratic image quality?

I'm simply considering a few areas (beyond the cameras) that haven't been very well explored.
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