Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Have some questions or having issues with your IP Camera(s), Post them here for the mods and other users to assist you with.
User avatar
Revo2Maxx
Site Admin
Posts: 5820
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:05 pm

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Well looking at yours it seems that it got worse when you moved to h.265. As I have said before I would look at using the other format for sure.

So I will move my camera back to my POE Switch and take a look. However the difference between day and night will be un fair for this camera really and should do more testing tonight. Normally for me anyway the 8mp normally looks really good at day time.

However with that said. EWWWWW.. Just turned it off and my video looks like yours did. Flashes all the time way more often then it did when it was on and the 1x i frame and VBR.. Good news is after looking at the picture for about 30 seconds my head wanted to explode lol. Turning it back on that flickering went away to was back to a stablish video. I say this because for me I personally don't like much in the way of the 8mp IP cameras. I have another one I just bought from Amcrest going to be here Monday it says.. So it is much newer tech and I hope changes my mind. If not Then I am still looking to keep most of my cameras 4mp or lower as 99% of the ones I use are free of issues like this..
Here to help the best I can.
Be Safe
ColColonCleaner
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:23 pm

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by ColColonCleaner »

@Pogo The alternative is just installing an sd card directly in the camera and having it record to that for a test, right? Doing some recordings while changing the settings and then pull those files off the card? That would cut out the network component entirely.
ColColonCleaner
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:23 pm

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by ColColonCleaner »

@Revo2Maxx Thank you for testing that, was really thinking I was going nuts here. So even with yours the sensor is a noisy mess and relies on the noise reduction to make a decent image. The tail-light streaking in your video stood out to me, it's an artifact of noise reduction. Also means almost all text will be illegible when it's in motion, at least at night.
Guess I'll need to spend way more than 100 per camera to have 4k cameras without as much noise. I'll probably be focusing on ones with a much larger sensor. But still I can't get the pulsing out of my current ones regardless of the settings I try, so hopefully they'll RMA these. After testing video directly off the camera to an SD card anyway.
User avatar
Pogo
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:10 am

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Pogo »

ColColonCleaner wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:22 pm @Pogo The alternative is just installing an sd card directly in the camera and having it record to that for a test, right? Doing some recordings while changing the settings and then pull those files off the card? That would cut out the network component entirely.
Very good point and you could do it fast and easily, depending on the camera location, of course. You'd still need the network to modify the settings for comparison recordings which would be more convenient for observing realtime results..., but it could also be what is somehow introducing the problems you're experiencing. If you're clean with just the SD card, try the mini-network next and go from there. If you're still dirty with just an SD card and nothing else connected, be ready to send the video to Amcrest when they start asking questions in response to your ticket.

I just read a couple dozen reviews of these cameras on Amazon and not one mentioned anything like this. Quite the contrary in nearly all cases except a few night vision critics.

I sympathize with your frustration and commend your patience.

Good luck.
ColColonCleaner
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:23 pm

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by ColColonCleaner »

Installed an SD card and pulled the files directly off of that. There is no difference in the quality unfortunately, still a noisy mess with strong pulsing on every keyframe. I'll be sending these videos to Amcrest once they respond to my email. Considering the other two cameras also have this issue during the day I'm not going to bother pulling the other ones down to install an SD card since this confirms it's not an issue with my network as the quality is identical streamed over rtsp vs from the sd card.

(4K H264 directly from SD card): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs1xdziEdNE

(4K H265 directly from SD card): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWyb_VwFtYs

Thanks for the help everyone. Hopefully they honor an RMA on these cameras.
User avatar
Revo2Maxx
Site Admin
Posts: 5820
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:05 pm

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Sorry hate to ask. Just wondering what i.Frame you are using 1X or 2x? Was going to say maybe try 3x however after doing this on mine anyway it was the same as 2 to my eyes anyway..

Here is something that I found out. Looking at my camera and trying to figure this out, What I see with my system setup normal to me settings the picture looks good enough to pass my Don't take down test lol. However what I don't see in my setup while looking at the normal area of view unless I turn off the noise filter. However if I happen to use Digital Zoom while at my normal area of view I can then see the refresh of the picture every 15 frames. However if I back out of the digital zoomed area the picture looks normal with little to no flashing. So I zoomed my cameras Optical lens all the way forward and I could see little more flashing under normal view and if I digital zoom it gets worse. What is odd however right at that time there was a Cardinal on the Wire. When I digital zoomed to see him better his area didn't flash only the area with bigger objects like the trees on the side of the area of view and not the center..

So I also tried to make some changes to my 3d and 2d from 50 that they were set at. Adding to it didn't make it look any better to be honest and lowering it from 50 made it worse. I also tried to change Outdoor to 60hz for my location and there was really little to no difference so I put it back onto Outdoor.

This brings me to this. From looking at my picture and looking at your area of view. I hate to say that your camera isn't setup for your location. My guess is that a 4mp camera would be better suited for that location and maybe even a 2mp (On the porches anyway) The one of the back yard that one would be best used with a 4mp as well. Main issue for all the locations is the distance from mount to ground. While the 8mp could be used in the backyard. I am going to guess that it would be better to face the camera up and away from facing the ground so much. I know that don't suit your needs and that area might be better served with a 5mp camera. Because even if you faced your 8mp camera up it would be really close to the Garage in Feild of view and that would never move and while it is not as close as the ground for the 8mp being in center of area it would be to close with other areas that are with movements. Sadly it isn't going to be easy to get any of the 3 locations with 3 cameras.
Here to help the best I can.
Be Safe
User avatar
Revo2Maxx
Site Admin
Posts: 5820
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:05 pm

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Revo2Maxx »

So with your camera being a Fixed 12m type lens of 2.8mm I wonder if it has the true TTL of a normal M12 lens or if it was cut down to fit in the Turret housing? For that lens the normal TTL would be around 14.8mm. Not saying you should take apart and remove lens to measure it just thinking out loud lol. Don't mean TTL of Time to Live! TTL I am talking about is Total Track Length and that is from the back of the lens to the front of it in this case the 2.8mm lens I just looked at is 115 degree in my bullet camera and is little shy at 14.67mm I didn't test it to the center of the lens that is domed some so it could be 14.8 to that part didn't want to scratch the lens.

In that location I really think a 4mp camera would be best. I mean 8mp there is a lot going on in your scene. There is shading over the camera and brighter area deeper in the view. So there is a lot for a camera to take in and process. Sorry I couldn't have been more help on the system. Now I am worried about what my 8mp camera that will be here tomorrow will look like in an area that I think is not the right location for the camera now that I see yours. I do have a 4mp camera there now. Just everything that moves is reported as a human and want to remove that camera from service of that spot..
Here to help the best I can.
Be Safe
ColColonCleaner
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:23 pm

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by ColColonCleaner »

The keyframe noise flash is visible even on my backyard camera and that is entirely in the open, no overhang beyond the camera. And regardless of the duration between the keyframes that just reduces the frequency between the noise flashes, it doesn't remove it.

As for the 2mp vs 4mp vs 8mp, why would that matter when talking about sensor noise during the day? I understand having slightly more issues at night since the higher resolution sensors require more light. But if that backyard camera, which is about 20ft off the ground, in broad daylight, can't make a clear video feed without using noise reduction as a crutch, that's a complete failure of a product in my opinion. And even with noise reduction enabled there's still a noise flash with every keyframe. The problems are amplified slightly with the camera on my deck since there's less direct light, but that still shouldn't be happening during the day since there's so much ambient light available.

If we're talking about alternatives, which 4K PoE cameras would you suggest for these locations?
User avatar
Pogo
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:10 am

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Pogo »

The blame keeps getting put on 'sensor noise' as the culprit here. If all the eggs are getting put in that basket after the SD card test videos, I'm not so sure that's actually the case. Not that an SD card is where I'd stake my final analysis of the situation anyway, but it did at least provide another means of comparison. Those videos looked more like focus issues and funky encoding or network crap than actual noise to me..., almost more like sub streams, but not quite that extreme. Neither video looked like 4K resolution to me. I have 1080p WyzeCams that look as good. The couple of 4K cameras I own look much better, one being an analog Amcrest and the other a Reolink.

Revo may be onto something with his assessment of possibly the wrong camera (or lens) for the particular application. As I mentioned yesterday, I read a ton of reviews for this camera just out of curiosity without finding any major complaints about image quality.

Have you tried the Amcrest recommendations for running these cameras? They drop the bit rate quite a bit to smooth out the low frame rate for h265 encoding. They're obviously also using their gear all through the process which may have a bearing on the overall system performance. There's a pretty good video on YouTube about it along with an article on their web site. Knock the frame rate down to like 1796 or something in that range with a 2s keyframe and see what happens -- if you haven't already. Comparing h264 and h265 with the same frame rates, particulary higher ones is almost apples and oranges.

Again, good luck.
User avatar
Revo2Maxx
Site Admin
Posts: 5820
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:05 pm

Re: Very noisy camera sensors even in broad daylight

Post by Revo2Maxx »

WOW! So I am sorry to say that I think some of the issue is the Browser you are using. I am not sure how that make any sense really because you said you took the footage of the last test off the Micro SD however I just made a Video with something in my testing I thought I would shoot your way.. I turned on the Smart CODEC on my camera. and I will admit it looks ok as long as 3d is turned on. I made a Video of it and then I thought Ok lets see what it looks like in Chrome.. WOW.. Logged in, Static picture.. Nothing.. It is crazy that Amcrest was able to make a camera that works 8mp in Chrome and while my camera is said to be Chrome Enabled there was nothing while using h.265. In that video I change to H.264 and sure enough I had the 4k in Main working but if I move to h.265 it just turns to a static Picture.. Also with Smart Codec turn on it wouldn't work in H.264 either. So had to turn that off and H.264 before I had main feed in Chrome..

So my CPU and GPU is little outdated to your's and maybe that is why your system is able to run it. However here is what mine is running at with Chrome turned on and smart Codec turned off and in H.264 because the video won't run on main with it turned on to H.265..

If you care to see the Videos I have not uploaded them as I was not sure they would help. However I am more then happy to upload so you can see the good and the bad of what I am talking about..

Just an idea...
Screenshot (4493).png
Screenshot (4493).png (766.6 KiB) Viewed 305 times
Here to help the best I can.
Be Safe
Post Reply