PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

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plusfour
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PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by plusfour »

I recently helped a friend set up an IP4M-1063EW-AI but when he wanted to set it up on his AI NVR alongside the existing AI cameras it wasn't available for AI setup. Every other AI camera was available but the 1063EW just came up as a standard non-AI camera.

Looked up Amazon reviews to see if anyone else had run into this and saw a comment about the even more expensive IP4M-1083EW-AI that reported the same thing:
DOES NOT support AI or smart detection functions. No person detection, no vehicle detection, no motion tracking, no tripwire protection, no perimeter protection, no Smart Plans. It has basic motion detection ONLY and cannot discern whether the motion is a tree moving in the breeze, an automobile, or a person. This was confirmed in an email from an Amcrest support representative who explained the camera does not have enough onboard processing power to support these functions.
So, are these expensive alleged AI cameras really not AI at all?
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Yeah going to need more in then that.

I have ai cameras that I can connect to my Amcrest Ai Nvr and the camera will come up as normal. For that is because the AI camera in question are Hikvision AI. So I can only use them as normal cameras. Or use my AI nvr channel built into my NVR on that channel but other options offered in camera wouldn't work.

So all Ai camera will require that brand of NVR for the Ai to function
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plusfour
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by plusfour »

In this case it's Amcrest AI cameras connected to an Amcrest AI NVR... that doesn't recognise them as AI cameras. Or at least it recognises every other AI camera except the PTZ one.
jack7
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by jack7 »

plusfour wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:22 pm I recently helped a friend set up an IP4M-1063EW-AI but when he wanted to set it up on his AI NVR alongside the existing AI cameras it wasn't available for AI setup. Every other AI camera was available but the 1063EW just came up as a standard non-AI camera.

Looked up Amazon reviews to see if anyone else had run into this and saw a comment about the even more expensive IP4M-1083EW-AI that reported the same thing:
DOES NOT support AI or smart detection functions. No person detection, no vehicle detection, no motion tracking, no tripwire protection, no perimeter protection, no Smart Plans. It has basic motion detection ONLY and cannot discern whether the motion is a tree moving in the breeze, an automobile, or a person. This was confirmed in an email from an Amcrest support representative who explained the camera does not have enough onboard processing power to support these functions.
So, are these expensive alleged AI cameras really not AI at all?
I suggest you read the user manual for that camera and set up the camera AI features using the camera Web UI as described in the manual.
plusfour
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by plusfour »

jack7 wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:26 pmI suggest you read the user manual for that camera and set up the camera AI features using the camera Web UI as described in the manual.
That's what he ended up doing (he doesn't need a manual, he's set up plenty of them in the past), but apart from the huge inconvenience of having to work around the NVR every time he needed to do something with the camera there was also some issue with the NVR overriding or not recognising the camera's AI settings when they were set in the camera, it was a week or so back and I eventually had to leave so I don't have all the details.
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by Revo2Maxx »

What AI NVR are you using it with?

Is it a 4216
or a A2 41xx
or a different Amcrest like the 5xxx series? Because if it is a 5 series that might be the issue? no matter what a lessor camera connects at. However if it is Amcrest 5216E-16P then that for the price I am sure shouldn't have any issue. However the others under that model then it is the NVR and not the camera.
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Also there are something in all AI cameras and even the DVR's that will turn off the ability for the camera or DVR to remain AI. In might have been a case that was going on for the camera. While I can't remember right now what the settings are on my AI cameras that will turn off the AI function but I know in the case of my AI DVR's if I turn on IP cameras it turns off AI function in all areas..

If the camera is still having issues. Personally I would Reset back to factory, Make sure it wasn't setup for SMD out of the box. as I don't know but I know that it wasn't until the last update or so on my Dahua AI cameras that started them to allow multi function AI, Meaning SMD and IVS it used to be one or the other. The camera also used to have a normal looking Smart Panel now I have the ability to setup a Schedule for different types of IVS. It is ok but has some bugs where if you make a mistake or want to change an event type the camera has to be reset lol
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Revo2Maxx
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by Revo2Maxx »

Yeah I don't know right now. I am going to guess that the person that had some report from Amcrest about AI and not having the Memory or CPU for AI might have mis-understood what was being said. I think that was in relation to the NVR and not the camera.

As Jack Pointed out and as I would suspect the AI setup for that camera is complex and might not be listed in any of the Ai NVR's or might be in the 4216 setup area because looking over the Manual for the 1063 camera there are some Complex settings that would be best setup in the Camera. Without having one to test out on a A2 or my 4216E-AI NVR. I don't know!

However looking at my NVR without a Amcrest AI PTZ so I can't really say. However looking at the AI menu, Under Parameters, IVS, Channel #? in here as you know you can add in the rules. For that camera my NVR shows Presets (don't have any so I can't set any for IVS) however for that camera my guess is that it would let you setup a Preset for lets say a Tripwire under preset 1 and then under Preset 2 maybe it was setup for Intrusion and adding that detail to the page there and applying the info might be where and or how it would need to be setup. My guess is when setting up as Jack has said. When done all that info will be added into the NVR for recording to the NVR. However as I have said. if using the 5xxx format NVR that isn't the almost 1500 AI NVR that was built for the Thermal Camera setup it might be that the other 5xxx series NVR's will reject the cameras AI because while it will setup other lower class AI cameras that NVR (Lower 5xxx model) might not have the programming for the 1063 or 1083 AI PTZ camera... As I said some time ago when someone reported they had a 5216E-8P and it had AI ability when they connected a AI camera to it even with the ANPR tab I don't think that NVR is 100% really AI because there is 0 info for any of the 52xx model that say they are AI enabled that isn't the same for the 5216E-16P that one does say it is Ai Enabled and the cost reflects the intent of the NVR.

All the cameras that I have tried to turn off the AI all have been updated to new FW from what they used to have. I only have 1 other one that I can test but that one I know what that is however all the ones with that feature with newer FW all still work even with adding the 3rd stream. So it might have been an oversite when they built the AI cameras with the released FW because the ones that I have added the 3rd stream didn't have any issue staying AI.. My guess is that it wasn't a 3rd stream issue aka sub stream2
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plusfour
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by plusfour »

Revo2Maxx wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:40 pm What AI NVR are you using it with?
Is it a 4216
or a A2 41xx
or a different Amcrest like the 5xxx series?
It's one of the 5xxx series. The friend who has it has now opened a case with Amazon over it because several of the features advertised for the camera simply don't exist, face detection, abandoned object, intrusion, these don't actually exist on the camera.
plusfour
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Re: PTZ IP4M-10x3EW-AI cameras aren't really AI?

Post by plusfour »

Revo2Maxx wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:48 amHowever as I have said. if using the 5xxx format NVR that isn't the almost 1500 AI NVR that was built for the Thermal Camera setup it might be that the other 5xxx series NVR's will reject the cameras AI because while it will setup other lower class AI cameras that NVR (Lower 5xxx model) might not have the programming for the 1063 or 1083 AI PTZ camera...
Yeah, that might be the problem since it's a 5xxx series NVR, the non-PTZ cameras attached to it which are fine AI-wise are quite a bit older than the IP4M-1063 and only do tripwire detection. It was possible to set up motion detection for the IP4M-1063 but this isn't useful in a PTZ camera because it doesn't look at a fixed location, OTOH none of the AI-based actions were available for it.
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