Open letter about the state of Amcrest software

[dom]

Hello,

Recently I invested some time and money into building an Amcrest based surveillance system for my home. Here's my current setup:

• 1x NV4108E-HS (NVR, POE, 8 channels)

• 2x IP3M-943W (Outdoor cameras, directly connected to the NVR via cat6 Ethernet cable)

• 2x IP4M-1026E (Outdoor cameras, directly connected to the NVR via cat6 Ethernet cable)

• 1x IP3M-941W (Indoor camera, connected to the NVR via WiFi)

Normally I access my cameras using the AmcrestViewPro camera on iOS via P2P. Often I use the web viewer when I want to configure some more advanced settings. All my Amcrest hardware uses the latest released firmware for each given device (see below for version numbers).

After weeks lurking on this forum I decided to post an open letter to talk about the state of Amcrest's software stack and discuss about the several issues me and many other customers are facing. Here you have a summary of the most important issues I hit using Amcrest products:

Web viewer
The web viewer does not work on any of the browsers I tried (Safari, Chrome, Firefox, IE, SeaMonkey). The web viewer asks you to install a plugin, you do, but then the plugin does not really work. Plenty of users reported this issue starting at the end of 2018:

• E.g.: https://amcrest.com/forum/ip-cameras-f1 ... 5-s30.html

Yes, I know that Amcrest is clearly aware of the issue:

• https://amcrest.com/forum/technical-dis ... 11971.html

Tried the Chrome app, but it works only partially (there's no video/image feedback, which is the whole point!). Another suggested solution is to use the Amcrest Cloud services, but why should I pay for a subscription service just because your software does not work?

Also, I tried the Surveillance Pro software and it's entirely broken on MacOS (at least, on Mojave 10.14.6). The app works mostly fine on Windows, but I don't use Windows much. Said so, having to install browser plugins or executables on MacOS/Windows in 2019 feels outdated. As far as I can understand the issue stems from the Amcrest web viewer using NPAPI, which is a bit upsetting, considering that this is technology has been deprecated in 2013 and entirely dropped by all major browsers between 2017/18. Are there any concrete plans and an ETA for when Amcrest will release a working version of the web viewer?

Clock resetting
One of my IP3M-943W cameras occasionally reset its system clock regardless the NTP settings (or the auto-maintain settings). The issue has been reported by various users almost 2 years ago, no fix yet:

• E.g.: https://amcrest.com/forum/ip-cameras-f1 ... t6918.html

This kept on happening for weeks before I connected this camera to the NVR directly (then it stopped happening luckily). Every time this happens all recording are crammed around 01-01-2000 and because the UI of the iOS app requires scrolling month-by-month to program the start/end dates the recordings are de-facto inaccessible.

Push notification issues
Push notifications sometimes stop working entirely, regardless the settings. Reported almost one year ago by other users, no fix yet:

• E.g.: https://amcrest.com/forum/ip-cameras-f1 ... 11038.html

Keeps on happening to me: sometimes notifications come back by enabling/disabling stuff, sometimes I need a factory reset, sometimes I just need to wait a few hours then they come back (yep, crazy).

Camera channel order in the NVR
The NVR decides some random camera order and it cannot be changed. Originally reported in 2018 by other users, no fix yet:

• E.g.: https://amcrest.com/forum/ip-cameras-f1 ... t8567.html

Spent hours setting up the cameras in the Web UI in the order I wanted, they kept on going back to whatever the NVR decided. Might sound stupid but I have one camera which I wanted to see by default as my first camera.

Camera disconnections
Some wired camera occasionally disconnects from the NVR until rebooted. That's a common issue that happens on a number of different camera models. The first report I could find on the forums is from 2017, no fix yet:

• https://amcrest.com/forum/nvrs-dvrs-f19 ... t2930.html

I personally hit this issue several times, the last time happened a few days back while on vacation: I lost the camera pointing at my front door for 1 week, had to manually reboot it once I came back, not nice.

Settings being overridden by magic forces
The camera and NVR setting management is quite buggy: sometimes some settings I set either via web interface or iOS app are clobbered inexplicably. It happens in a number of forms to various users, sometimes but not always related to use of Amcrest Cloud (which I don't use).

One of the many examples: https://amcrest.com/forum/ip-cameras-f1 ... -t374.html

I keep hitting this issue on a daily basis: every time I want change recording schedules or anything else, I have to rinse and repeat a few times. The issue happens totally within the Amcrest ecosystem (i.e.: no devices from other brands at play), it seems to me like Amcrest needs to implement a robust mechanism to sync settings across apps / web interface / cloud.

Firmware updates please?
Every time I hit a new issue I check the forum posts and I can almost always find many other users that hit the same issues for years, mostly without a resolution. Sometimes the proposed solution is to add/remove devices from the app, sometimes you need to reset the device to factory settings. However, the whole point of buying a home surveillance system is that it's supposed to work no matter what, even if you are 1000 miles away on vacation. Rebooting or restoring cameras every single week because of a different issue makes these products unusable to me (especially because often cameras disappear from the NVR after a reboot).

The really upsetting part, and the central point of this open letter really, is that Amcrest does not seem to fix most of these issues. The reason I think this is that all my cameras have been purchased within the last 4 months and they are still being sold online (by Amcrest itself), but there have been no firmware updates in years.

Keep in mind I'm on the latest firmware on any of the Amcrest devices I own, here you have the build dates for all of them:

• NV4108E-HS, firmware 3.215.00AC000.0, Build Date: 2018-01-05

• IP3M-943W, firmware 2.400.AC02.15.R, Build Date: 2017-07-31

• IP4M-1026E, firmware 2.420.AC01.3.R, Build Date: 2018-02-06

• IP3M-941W, firmware 2.520.AC00.18.R, Build Date: 2017-06-29

Amcrest did not release a firmware update for those devices in years, and those are all products that are very well advertised on the Amcrest webpage (i.e.: they're not discontinued products).

Is there a concrete plan to fix the issues reported above soon?
Does Amcrest really stand behind their own products?

Thanks,

dom

[dom]

Tried the Chrome app, but it works only partially (there's no video/image feedback, which is the whole point!).

Just to clarify, this is true only when using the Chrome app to connect to my NVR. If I connect to a camera directly then I can see the video/image feedback. However, it seems like I cannot easily connect to all the cameras connected to the NVR through the Chrome app (only one of the ports forwarded by the NVR works).

[Revo2Maxx]

I am going to guess your talking about the Built In Security of your NVR... So one of the things that makes the POE more superior over the Non POE is that when the Cameras are connected to the POE switch of the NVR there is no outside access to the Camera... This is Great.. Don't have to worry about the Nice Hackers that like to do nothing but waste there day making the lives of others miserable...

So then you have to ask your self what is most important the ability to access each every camera without the security of the POE switch or have them connected to your normal router where you will have total access to your cameras and may have an open backdoor for others to play in them as well...

Then there is this... for POE, IP or Wifi Cameras to have access to a Static IP. That way if you need to have access to a camera for making some configuration adjustments you can just pluck it from your NVR port, Have on your Cable a PORT id this is then road mapped so you know what IP it will be. Plug into your Router or switch. Have a second IP range setup on your Main Computer, camera computer, Server or what ever you want to call it.. Then when you plug in your camera in your Router/Switch you can just bring up the WebUI. type in IP address and user and pass and then your doing your business.... Once done. Unplug form Router/Switch, Plug back in NVR and your up and running... There are other ways but that brings in the ability to make it hard to connect to your NVR if your not using a OPEN port. Say you have a 8 Port POE only 7 camera. Could always plug a switch to the Port 8 and computer to the switch and now have access to your cameras on that computer...

Also there is a NEW FW for your 941 But I would maybe skip it TBH.. However if you must have Email notices and it isn't hidden behind a POE firewall then you might want to update the 941 it's current FW is V2.620.00AC003.3.R Aug 2019

Security and safety isn't a flaw it is a must...

[ptgeorfe]

I spend way too much time correcting configurations that magically change. Overlays, image mirror, time settings mostly for me. Occurs after reboot it seems. I should probably stop my daily auto restarts. Yes, I am saving after each configuration change.

[Revo2Maxx]

Not sure the Need for daily restarts and sadly if your having to change things after a reboot I would check a couple of things...

1. You use a Cloud account? If so you need to make sure you make all your changes on the Cloud
2. Maybe the Camera has an Internal Battery that is dead. What type of camera is it and when were they first Released. Even if it was New old stock it could have a dead battery.

[Z-Man]

Daily reboots? Yikes.
I schedule weekly reboots for all the cameras including the NVR.
I scatter the reboots on different days and at various times. I've been doing that since day 1 (I learned that from managing other more expensive systems for work). The cameras and the NVR always come back fine.
Daily seems too much.

[dom]

I am going to guess your talking about the Built In Security of your NVR... So one of the things that makes the POE more superior over the Non POE is that when the Cameras are connected to the POE switch of the NVR there is no outside access to the Camera... This is Great.. Don't have to worry about the Nice Hackers that like to do nothing but waste there day making the lives of others miserable...

So then you have to ask your self what is most important the ability to access each every camera without the security of the POE switch or have them connected to your normal router where you will have total access to your cameras and may have an open backdoor for others to play in them as well...

Is this a reply to my original post or was it posted by mistake on this thread? If the latter, not sure I understand what you're implying here: most of my issues have nothing to do with a connection via NVR at all. For instance, the web viewer does not work regardless whether you connect the cameras directly through the router or through the NVR. Also, the NVR has an option to connect directly to the web interface of any of the connected cameras (via port forwarding it looks like -- and btw, that is buggy too for various reasons).

Not sure I understand the point about the security too, an NVR would simply introduce an extra layer between the cameras and the outside world, but there is no reason whatsoever why this should come at the expense of usability or stability.

Then there is this... for POE, IP or Wifi Cameras to have access to a Static IP. That way if you need to have access to a camera for making some configuration adjustments you can just pluck it from your NVR port, Have on your Cable a PORT id this is then road mapped so you know what IP it will be. Plug into your Router or switch. Have a second IP range setup on your Main Computer, camera computer, Server or what ever you want to call it.. Then when you plug in your camera in your Router/Switch you can just bring up the WebUI. type in IP address and user and pass and then your doing your business.... Once done. Unplug form Router/Switch, Plug back in NVR and your up and running... There are other ways but that brings in the ability to make it hard to connect to your NVR if your not using a OPEN port. Say you have a 8 Port POE only 7 camera. Could always plug a switch to the Port 8 and computer to the switch and now have access to your cameras on that computer...

All my cameras and the NVR itself are on static IPs, yet one of the cameras occasionally disappears. That's one of the nice "perks" of the ONVIF protocol that allows the NVR to change the IP settings of the connected cameras freely. My feeling is that the ONVIF implementation in the Amcrest NVR is buggy and sometimes there's a misunderstanding between the IP that the NVR decides for a given camera and what the camera actually takes. I'm saying this because during one of the auto-maintain reboots the NVR was expecting the camera to be on IP X while the camera was at IP Y (tested by connecting my computer directly to the camera via ethernet and pinging every single IP address in the IP range used normally by the NVR).

Also there is a NEW FW for your 941 But I would maybe skip it TBH.. However if you must have Email notices and it isn't hidden behind a POE firewall then you might want to update the 941 it's current FW is V2.620.00AC003.3.R Aug 2019

Why would you skip the FW update? Also, I've seen that Amcrest just released a new FW update for the 941, is the new one any better?
https://amcrest.com/forum/ip-cameras-f1 ... 12744.html

BTW, thanks for the heads up, I totally missed the FW update for the 941 you mentioned. However, this does not change the fact that the firmware for all my other Amcrest devices has not been updated in a long time.

EDIT
Silly me, the 941 FW update I linked about refers to the very same FW update you were talking about: somebody posted on that thread and it popped up at the top of the forum board and I did not check the dates. Read the whole thread, now I understand why you're not recommending installing that FW, it's basically plagued with horrible bugs and no updates since August. Btw, why is Amcrest using Java instead of HTML5 or any more modern tech for their brand new plugin is beyond me...

[dom]

Daily reboots? Yikes.
I schedule weekly reboots for all the cameras including the NVR.
I scatter the reboots on different days and at various times. I've been doing that since day 1 (I learned that from managing other more expensive systems for work). The cameras and the NVR always come back fine.
Daily seems too much.

Not sure why ptgeorfe needs to do daily restarts, but to be honest why do we even need weekly reboots? The mere fact that such a feature even exists says a lot about the confidence Amcrest has in their own software to me. Stable software does not require such frequent restarts. I normally restart the machine I use for development at work just when strictly needed, meaning I often spend *months* without restarting and I'd be very upset if somebody came back to me saying "hey dude, you need to restart your machine once a week if you want it to work well". I do understand this could be used as a workaround for some issues, but it should not be an option enabled by default IMHO.

[Revo2Maxx]

WOW really... Yeah I am out... Have nothing to offer...

I have a feeling you have a Dislike for Amcrest and with such I have nothing more to offer...

About the FW however The one in the link was one I was talking about... However do as you will..

Won't make the Mistake again... Good luck in your Camera and NVR setup. Wish you a wonderful Holiday Season...

[dom]

WOW really... Yeah I am out... Have nothing to offer...

I have a feeling you have a Dislike for Amcrest and with such I have nothing more to offer...

That is partially true, in this exact moment I have I'm not an happy Amcrest customer and let me explain why. I chose this brand based on suggestions from various friends, ended up spending 700$ in material plus a couple of days to install everything. However, my surveillance system is not working as reliably as it should be -- for instance, we went on a short trip for Thanksgiving and the very first day I lost my front porch camera because of an auto-maintain reboot in which the camera did not reconnect to the NVR (mysteriously).

The goal of my open letter is to discuss about the most important issues that are affecting the Amcrest products with the hope that somebody from the company will see this thread and give us some feedback about when/if those issues are going to be addressed.

To go back to your point though: I don't dislike Amcrest per se, but I feel like the company could do a better job at keeping their software up to date. Bugs happen to everybody (trust me, I'm a software engineer and I've been doing this job for many many years), what makes a big difference is the way a company reacts to bugs / limitations in their software. I think it's reasonable to expect software updates at least once if not twice a year for shipping products, especially if there are serious issues happening.

Concluding, I'd like to clarify something: I understand you're an Amcrest user trying to help another user, thank you for that. However, it seems like some of the things I said upset you and for this let me apologize: my intent was not to put you in a bad spot at all and all my feedback is purely technical -- yes, maybe a bit too direct, sorry for that. Not sure what caused your reaction, possibly it was my comment about the auto-maintain feature being on by default -- yes that was a bit harsh towards Amcrest, but now let me ask you a question: what would you think if your phone or your computer had to be rebooted once a week to be fully functional?

About the FW however The one in the link was one I was talking about... However do as you will..

Yes, I figured that out after I posted, please see my edit of the previous post. Thanks for the heads up regardless.