We bought this system for our mom several years ago, but it was still in the box in a closet. I had a recent break in so I decided to use the system.
I put in a new HD, set it up/connected to the Internet, and then hooked up a test camera. I kept getting a "no channel available" or "No channel found" error.
I left to do some shopping and when I came back, the camera was working. I hooked up a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and they all worked. So I turned the system off and moved it to the permanent location. However when I turned it back on, I had the same problem, none of the cameras worked and I got the same errors.
I left it running and when I came back a few hours later, I found the cameras working fine.
Why is this happening?
NV4108E install
Re: NV4108E install
Sounds like cable issue or could be a distance issue. Seeing few years old is it Normal 4108E or is it an HS?
What cameras are you using?
What cameras are you using?
Be Safe.
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digitalbeachbum
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:50 pm
Re: NV4108E install
So looking at the sticker on the bottom it only says NV4108E (I don't have the box and stuff with me right now).
The one cable is Cat6e, roughly 40ft long. I ran this one to the front door through the attic. The others are only 4ft long and are sitting on my desk.
The cameras are IP3M-956EW.
I know it is older system, but it was never used. All brand new out of the box. So I thought it wouldn't be much of an issue. I've used these systems before and the setup wasn't difficult.
I did not update it yet. I'm assuming there is one to download so I'm going to try that now.
The one cable is Cat6e, roughly 40ft long. I ran this one to the front door through the attic. The others are only 4ft long and are sitting on my desk.
The cameras are IP3M-956EW.
I know it is older system, but it was never used. All brand new out of the box. So I thought it wouldn't be much of an issue. I've used these systems before and the setup wasn't difficult.
I did not update it yet. I'm assuming there is one to download so I'm going to try that now.
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digitalbeachbum
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:50 pm
Re: NV4108E install
I found the firmware update. Funny. I recall ordering this off Amazon in 2017 and I see that the final firmware came out in 07/2017.
When I rebooted, the cable which was shorter instantly showed the camera. The longer one is not showing yet.
When I rebooted, the cable which was shorter instantly showed the camera. The longer one is not showing yet.
Re: NV4108E install
Ok, So I don't use my 4108E much anymore. I would have to pull it out and do some testing to see. I have a POE version of the 956EB from moons ago. I know that when i was using the NVR I had it connected to longer then 40 feet.
This is going to make me think the issue is then your camera cable going to I am guessing the NVRs port is using CCA. That is only reason I could guess that the camera being such a low POE current drawing camera would have an issue on the NVR.. The NVR is in my Shed where it used to power my 2mp POE PTZ camera the Amcrest 850EB. I will admit that I have removed it from the NVR and now power that camera from Power supply that it came with just for use case of where it is mounted.. I am sure the longest cable was over 100" but is known good copper Cat5E..
CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) cables are not ideal for Power over Ethernet (PoE) cameras due to several reasons:
Higher Resistance: CCA cables have higher resistance compared to pure copper cables. This increased resistance can lead to voltage drops over longer cable runs, especially when delivering power to PoE devices like cameras. Voltage drops can cause issues such as reduced power delivery, intermittent connectivity problems, and potentially even damage to the devices.
Heat Generation: Due to the higher resistance, CCA cables tend to generate more heat when power is transmitted through them. This can lead to overheating issues, particularly in applications where the cables are tightly bundled or installed in environments with high ambient temperatures. Overheating can degrade cable performance and even pose safety hazards.
Compatibility: Some PoE devices may not be compatible with CCA cables due to their higher resistance characteristics. Devices designed for PoE applications often expect low resistance in the cables to ensure reliable power delivery. Using CCA cables might lead to compatibility issues or result in devices not receiving sufficient power. This point is where the Amcrest POE cameras come into play.
Long-Term Reliability: Over time, the aluminum component in CCA cables can react with atmospheric elements, leading to corrosion and degradation of the cable's electrical properties. This degradation can compromise the long-term reliability of the cable infrastructure, potentially resulting in connectivity issues or failure of PoE cameras and other network devices.
In summary, while CCA cables may be less expensive than pure copper alternatives, their higher resistance and potential compatibility issues make them less suitable for PoE applications where reliable power delivery and long-term performance are critical. It's generally recommended to use pure copper cables, such as Category 5e or Category 6, for PoE installations to ensure optimal performance and reliability.
I must confess that I purchased some 150-foot and 60-foot CCA cables for testing purposes. Interestingly, in both instances, when I connected 4MP Dahua AI cameras, purchased at the same time and of the same make, to these cables, they experienced malfunctions. Notably, when connected to the 150-foot cable, the cameras failed almost instantly. However, with the 60-foot cable, it took around an hour or slightly less before the camera malfunctioned. Subsequently, I repaired both cameras and have been using them reliably with copper Cat5E cables for over two years now.
This is going to make me think the issue is then your camera cable going to I am guessing the NVRs port is using CCA. That is only reason I could guess that the camera being such a low POE current drawing camera would have an issue on the NVR.. The NVR is in my Shed where it used to power my 2mp POE PTZ camera the Amcrest 850EB. I will admit that I have removed it from the NVR and now power that camera from Power supply that it came with just for use case of where it is mounted.. I am sure the longest cable was over 100" but is known good copper Cat5E..
CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) cables are not ideal for Power over Ethernet (PoE) cameras due to several reasons:
Higher Resistance: CCA cables have higher resistance compared to pure copper cables. This increased resistance can lead to voltage drops over longer cable runs, especially when delivering power to PoE devices like cameras. Voltage drops can cause issues such as reduced power delivery, intermittent connectivity problems, and potentially even damage to the devices.
Heat Generation: Due to the higher resistance, CCA cables tend to generate more heat when power is transmitted through them. This can lead to overheating issues, particularly in applications where the cables are tightly bundled or installed in environments with high ambient temperatures. Overheating can degrade cable performance and even pose safety hazards.
Compatibility: Some PoE devices may not be compatible with CCA cables due to their higher resistance characteristics. Devices designed for PoE applications often expect low resistance in the cables to ensure reliable power delivery. Using CCA cables might lead to compatibility issues or result in devices not receiving sufficient power. This point is where the Amcrest POE cameras come into play.
Long-Term Reliability: Over time, the aluminum component in CCA cables can react with atmospheric elements, leading to corrosion and degradation of the cable's electrical properties. This degradation can compromise the long-term reliability of the cable infrastructure, potentially resulting in connectivity issues or failure of PoE cameras and other network devices.
In summary, while CCA cables may be less expensive than pure copper alternatives, their higher resistance and potential compatibility issues make them less suitable for PoE applications where reliable power delivery and long-term performance are critical. It's generally recommended to use pure copper cables, such as Category 5e or Category 6, for PoE installations to ensure optimal performance and reliability.
I must confess that I purchased some 150-foot and 60-foot CCA cables for testing purposes. Interestingly, in both instances, when I connected 4MP Dahua AI cameras, purchased at the same time and of the same make, to these cables, they experienced malfunctions. Notably, when connected to the 150-foot cable, the cameras failed almost instantly. However, with the 60-foot cable, it took around an hour or slightly less before the camera malfunctioned. Subsequently, I repaired both cameras and have been using them reliably with copper Cat5E cables for over two years now.
Be Safe.
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digitalbeachbum
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:50 pm
Re: NV4108E install
The plugin for all the browsers won't work. I can't remote connect from my PC. I haven't tried an app on my phone yet, If I can find it
I checked the cable. I don't see any reference for CCA.
I will try a different cable tomorrow. I'm sure I can get this to work. The camera did work (on the 40 ft) and it was a perfect picture.
I checked the cable. I don't see any reference for CCA.
I will try a different cable tomorrow. I'm sure I can get this to work. The camera did work (on the 40 ft) and it was a perfect picture.
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digitalbeachbum
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:50 pm
Re: NV4108E install
I have DHCP turned off. I am running my DHCP on the router, which saw the DVR and gave it a IP.
The cameras keep coming up with their own IP. 10.1.1.x
The DVR is finding the camera on the 40 ft cable now (took the system down to one camera).
It can see the device name/type/MAC but when I click add, it will add it, but then it tells me "can't find host name"
If I run the SmartAdd, it tells me it can find a device, but then fails IPC.
sigh. it's late and I will think better after some sleep.
The cameras keep coming up with their own IP. 10.1.1.x
The DVR is finding the camera on the 40 ft cable now (took the system down to one camera).
It can see the device name/type/MAC but when I click add, it will add it, but then it tells me "can't find host name"
If I run the SmartAdd, it tells me it can find a device, but then fails IPC.
sigh. it's late and I will think better after some sleep.
Re: NV4108E install
Yes the cameras on the NVRs Switch will start with a 10.1.1.65 normally and go up from there.
When connecting a new camera using a POE NVR normally the NVR will give it a new IP and only show a port number on the NVR as the CH number under port. So for instance I change my Switch IP numbers to reflect my NVRs IP. Take for instance my 5232E-16P that IP for the NVR is 10.0.0.246 so the switch IP has been changed to 10.2.46.1 and the numbers off that would show up as 10.2.46.65 for my first connected cameras on port 1. When looking at the camera list if the cameras are Private for Amcrest/Dahua driven and connected to the normal network it would show 37777. Then on my Hikvision cameras connected show port 80. However if the Amcrest/Dahua camera was connected on the POE switch of the NVR rather then showing port 37777 it would show the camera Channel number as the Port like Port 1 and so on..
So on your case leaving the IP address normal for the POE switch of the NVR the IP of the connected cameras would show up 10.1.1.xx with Port 1 ch1 port 2 ch2 and so on..
So about the Plugin. That NVR works with IE. so in order to use that NVR on a WebUI you would need to use the Edge browser and then setup to use IE Mode. There is now a button where you can just click and add where it used to be you would have to go into the settings to setup the Ip to work with the IE mode. Just make sure that when you do you click start in IE mode next time. This resets every 30 days and after 30 days it will pop up and say you are in edge click to start in IE mode again. Keep in mind this has been updated to be easier then it was to start out with where every 30 days you had to go back into security default browser area to setup each IP.. I use all or at least 95% of all my CCTV devices in IE mode. All features are there seeing it is the normal platform the devices were designed for.. MS will support IE mode until 2029 so they say. Hope so or only access will be some type of CMS like ASP or IVMS to access features. I have a couple of devices that no longer have access to even IE mode seeing they are so old and the last update was like 2012 and IE back then was different format so the one today don't work with the menu just get a blank page.. So I use on NVR and if I need to change something in the camera settings I am SOL..
So here is the next issue that you might be running into.. Doubt it but would look. If your camera is running on H.265 I would change to H.264 to work best with the 4108E.. So looking at my 4108E, I connected my 956EB camera using 120" cat5E cable. I let it run for an hour and thought let see if it would power my 4mp Alibi PTZ camera on a 60' Cat6a cable that is marked as pure copper. What is odd is I have this camera connected normally using my HP POE+ switch on that cable and before I connected that camera there I had my 2mp Amcrest there power by my Amcrest NVRs. However when I connected my Alibi camera it did the dance and powered the LEDs as normal but never found the camera. Waited 5 min and still didn't find it. Tried it in my 5232E-16P NVR and still didn't find it. Took it back to the POE+ switch and now my POE is dead in that camera lol. I say the POE is dead because I ran extension cord out there with 5amp power supply and the camera works with 12v power just no longer on POE.. Connected my 853 Amcrest PTZ there with the same Cat6A cable and the NVR powered it just fine.. That cable has been there for the last 5+ years so maybe my camera was just getting old. I am sure when I take the camera down I will take it apart and know right where the damage will be.. As long as the normal housing is built like the Amcrest ones I hope lOL.. Would have replaced it tonight but to dark, cold, and raining so down 1 camera for the night no loss..
When connecting a new camera using a POE NVR normally the NVR will give it a new IP and only show a port number on the NVR as the CH number under port. So for instance I change my Switch IP numbers to reflect my NVRs IP. Take for instance my 5232E-16P that IP for the NVR is 10.0.0.246 so the switch IP has been changed to 10.2.46.1 and the numbers off that would show up as 10.2.46.65 for my first connected cameras on port 1. When looking at the camera list if the cameras are Private for Amcrest/Dahua driven and connected to the normal network it would show 37777. Then on my Hikvision cameras connected show port 80. However if the Amcrest/Dahua camera was connected on the POE switch of the NVR rather then showing port 37777 it would show the camera Channel number as the Port like Port 1 and so on..
So on your case leaving the IP address normal for the POE switch of the NVR the IP of the connected cameras would show up 10.1.1.xx with Port 1 ch1 port 2 ch2 and so on..
So about the Plugin. That NVR works with IE. so in order to use that NVR on a WebUI you would need to use the Edge browser and then setup to use IE Mode. There is now a button where you can just click and add where it used to be you would have to go into the settings to setup the Ip to work with the IE mode. Just make sure that when you do you click start in IE mode next time. This resets every 30 days and after 30 days it will pop up and say you are in edge click to start in IE mode again. Keep in mind this has been updated to be easier then it was to start out with where every 30 days you had to go back into security default browser area to setup each IP.. I use all or at least 95% of all my CCTV devices in IE mode. All features are there seeing it is the normal platform the devices were designed for.. MS will support IE mode until 2029 so they say. Hope so or only access will be some type of CMS like ASP or IVMS to access features. I have a couple of devices that no longer have access to even IE mode seeing they are so old and the last update was like 2012 and IE back then was different format so the one today don't work with the menu just get a blank page.. So I use on NVR and if I need to change something in the camera settings I am SOL..
So here is the next issue that you might be running into.. Doubt it but would look. If your camera is running on H.265 I would change to H.264 to work best with the 4108E.. So looking at my 4108E, I connected my 956EB camera using 120" cat5E cable. I let it run for an hour and thought let see if it would power my 4mp Alibi PTZ camera on a 60' Cat6a cable that is marked as pure copper. What is odd is I have this camera connected normally using my HP POE+ switch on that cable and before I connected that camera there I had my 2mp Amcrest there power by my Amcrest NVRs. However when I connected my Alibi camera it did the dance and powered the LEDs as normal but never found the camera. Waited 5 min and still didn't find it. Tried it in my 5232E-16P NVR and still didn't find it. Took it back to the POE+ switch and now my POE is dead in that camera lol. I say the POE is dead because I ran extension cord out there with 5amp power supply and the camera works with 12v power just no longer on POE.. Connected my 853 Amcrest PTZ there with the same Cat6A cable and the NVR powered it just fine.. That cable has been there for the last 5+ years so maybe my camera was just getting old. I am sure when I take the camera down I will take it apart and know right where the damage will be.. As long as the normal housing is built like the Amcrest ones I hope lOL.. Would have replaced it tonight but to dark, cold, and raining so down 1 camera for the night no loss..
Be Safe.
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digitalbeachbum
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:50 pm
Re: NV4108E install
So I've been using the one camera which is working fine. I've been checking the cable requirements. I see the problem with the aluminum because it isn't pure copper there is too much heat which causes problems with the signal.
However, I'm confused with what I found online vs what I have available for use.
One cable is labelled as follows:
CAT 6 23AWGx4P UTP CMR E200534 C(UL) TIA/EIA 568B 2-1 CTL VERIFIED FT4 RoHS Compliant ELTOP Electronics
the other cable has the following:
DATALAN 100 H3178 CMP 76C 4Pair 24 AWG (UL) 1638 LL37586 Type FCC 60C FT4/FT6 ETL Verified EIA/TIA 568A CAT5 694268
I'm using the CAT6 cable right now. The one thing which is strange about the CAT 6 cable is that when I first hook everything up it seems to take a while for the camera to come online. Once it is up, it works fine. The picture is crystal clear and I've got it recording with no issues on playback. I even put a memory card in the camera and that is working too.
I stripped down the cable, but it doesn't appear to be aluminum or at least I might be stupid and not realizing the difference.
I've updated everything, but haven't tried using IE browser yet. I've got the app working on my phone which is working with the DVR.
However, I'm confused with what I found online vs what I have available for use.
One cable is labelled as follows:
CAT 6 23AWGx4P UTP CMR E200534 C(UL) TIA/EIA 568B 2-1 CTL VERIFIED FT4 RoHS Compliant ELTOP Electronics
the other cable has the following:
DATALAN 100 H3178 CMP 76C 4Pair 24 AWG (UL) 1638 LL37586 Type FCC 60C FT4/FT6 ETL Verified EIA/TIA 568A CAT5 694268
I'm using the CAT6 cable right now. The one thing which is strange about the CAT 6 cable is that when I first hook everything up it seems to take a while for the camera to come online. Once it is up, it works fine. The picture is crystal clear and I've got it recording with no issues on playback. I even put a memory card in the camera and that is working too.
I stripped down the cable, but it doesn't appear to be aluminum or at least I might be stupid and not realizing the difference.
I've updated everything, but haven't tried using IE browser yet. I've got the app working on my phone which is working with the DVR.
Re: NV4108E install
Yes the issue with CCA cable is that it can be kind of hard to understand if someone bought good cable because so many people are cheating by trying to make the cables look good. Even cable that has CCA posted on the cable shows info about UL and TIA/EIA Verified and CCA would never get a TIA rating in the real world application...
So if you take some cable that you think may not be true copper you will need to scrape the cable to remove the layer of copper. If you see silver color under the copper then the cable is Fake by the markings and CCA by build.. In some cases I have seen some that didn't even coat the cable with copper it was silver when stripped.
CMP and CMR are the type of area the cable was designed for, CMP is designed for Plenum spaces and are areas in buildings where air circulation for heating and other HVAC area runs in a building. Because of type of coating on the wires help prevent spread of fire and or toxic fumes.
CMR on the other hand are designed for use in Vertical riser applications. Like between floors in a building. While they do have fire resistant properties, they are not required to meet the strict specs.
Also keep in mind that there are some people out there that are taking the data from good known companies and adding it to their wire. So it can be hard at times to know if cable is good or not without testing it. Another is a Flame test. Copper wire will take much heat from flame and will turn black. Where fake copper wire will melt away not like turn to liquid but curl up and wither away.
Datalan if is real is said to be 99% copper.
So when I connect my cameras to POE+ switch or my POE NVRs it can take a minute for the camera to come online. Even some of my higher end Analog cameras can take a little bit of time to come to life because of the types of checks that they go through and confirm that the system is ready to run..
So if you take some cable that you think may not be true copper you will need to scrape the cable to remove the layer of copper. If you see silver color under the copper then the cable is Fake by the markings and CCA by build.. In some cases I have seen some that didn't even coat the cable with copper it was silver when stripped.
CMP and CMR are the type of area the cable was designed for, CMP is designed for Plenum spaces and are areas in buildings where air circulation for heating and other HVAC area runs in a building. Because of type of coating on the wires help prevent spread of fire and or toxic fumes.
CMR on the other hand are designed for use in Vertical riser applications. Like between floors in a building. While they do have fire resistant properties, they are not required to meet the strict specs.
Also keep in mind that there are some people out there that are taking the data from good known companies and adding it to their wire. So it can be hard at times to know if cable is good or not without testing it. Another is a Flame test. Copper wire will take much heat from flame and will turn black. Where fake copper wire will melt away not like turn to liquid but curl up and wither away.
Datalan if is real is said to be 99% copper.
So when I connect my cameras to POE+ switch or my POE NVRs it can take a minute for the camera to come online. Even some of my higher end Analog cameras can take a little bit of time to come to life because of the types of checks that they go through and confirm that the system is ready to run..
Be Safe.