Doorbell chime humming and smoking resistor

[amforumaccount]

Going to be a bit long so apologies in advance. My knowledge of electricity is mostly restricted to 1 and 0s these days so could use any and all help to figure this one out.

My house is 30 years old and has originally installed 16V 10VA doorbell transformer paired with a single ding dong chime with only the front and trans connections wired using what seems to be 20 AWG wiring. With that there are 3 different install combinations over last few days that are relevant here:

1. Installed the doorbell camera in the original doorbell spot on the left side of door. All seemed to be fine expect occasionally would get 'Play error, click to refresh' which I was solving by restarting the app.

2. Extended the doorbell wiring from the left side of the door to the right side using 18 AWG wires. I ran the new wire from the left side to the right side of the door under the screen door liner which seems to be thin metal core with a vinyl coating. The left side doorbell wiring hole with wires and wire nuts was uncovered at this time. All seemed to be fine expect occasionally would get 'Play error, click to refresh' which I was solving by restarting the app.

3. Then this morning put in a blank metal outlet cover plate over the original left side doorbell wiring hole with the metal cover plate overlapping under the screen door liner by 1/16" to allow for the new wires to transition from the outlet cover plate to go under the liner. Within about an hour or so doorbell chime starts humming and going ding every few minutes. Turned off power and installed a 10 OHM 1 WATT resistor across the doorbell chime front and trans connections. Turned on power and resistor is smoking.

Have removed resistor, removed blank metal outlet cover plate and replaced it with a 1/8" ply that I had handy and everything is back to old normal. Doorbell video working fine, no humming or dings from the chime expect for the 'Play error, click to refresh' occasionally which I am still solving by restarting the app.

Help!

Thank you.

[Revo2Maxx]

I am sorry I am not sure why you thought you would need the 10 ohm 1 watt resistor? Did you have an issue with your door bell humming or some other type of idea that it was not happy with the Chime Kit and Camera being connected. In some installs a 1 watt would be to small and would get VERY VERY hot.. So when I hear using a Resistor I am thinking about voltage suppression and the need for resistor sized to the need of over voltage or current that present.

So take when someone has a older doorbell that you can hear a slight hum, take off cover you might even see the plunger surging some or moving very little.. With this I would use a 1watt 10oHm resistor and that voltage would then be carried into the resistor and removed as heat.. Now take kind of same issue but this time take it little deeper rather then just slight hum and little movement lets say the Plunger is making a constant move and maybe ever 5 min or after something else sharing the wiring switches off it makes the plunger dig the chime ever so slightly This tells me that I would need a bigger Resistor maybe 10watt 10 ohm but even that might get really hot and as such one would need a larger watt to better fend off the heat that will be put into the resistor for the current electrical needs...

However to be Fair there should be no issue using the Chime Kit and the doorbell with a good 16vac 30VA Transformer.. There should be no other need for other diodes or resistors

The only thing I can see being an issue in anyone that would set this up is having a Transformer that is to far from the Doorbell camera and having to small of wiring trying to power a constant powered item seeing normally a Doorbell Switch is a Open Circuit until the push of the button and that is only a VERY short push long enough to cause the Current to flow from the open to closed and powers the Chime... So little wire no big deal because it just don't need much to make a flow of current a short time.. However Now using that wire that might have been to small for the distance to start with and put in a Camera that takes normal standby 150 to 200ma of constant current there might be some issues along a long path..

Then to add different wire over wire that is or might be to small already isn't going to help the cause.. to be honest it would almost turn the smaller wire into a Fusible link ..

I am not sure.. what I do know is that it is said and long standing that a 16vac 30va Transformer should be used when installing the doorbell.. This will ensure that the doorbell camera and chime have the current needed when it needs it and the doorbell is able to recover after the event of button being pressed...

16vac 10va is to small of a Transformer when the doorbell it self is asking for that much power on it own...

[amforumaccount]

Did you have an issue with your door bell humming or some other type of idea that it was not happy with the Chime Kit and Camera being connected.

Right that was the exact issue. If you see scenario #3 in my post above this is exactly what caused me to try the resistor.

This tells me that I would need a bigger Resistor maybe 10watt 10 ohm but even that might get really hot and as such one would need a larger watt to better fend off the heat

Is there a formula or method to calculate the wattage of the required resistor should there again be humming or dings from the doorbell every few minutes?

However to be Fair there should be no issue using the Chime Kit and the doorbell with a good 16vac 30VA Transformer.. There should be no other need for other diodes or resistors

That’s the plan, to change the transformer to a 16v 30va one.

Then to add different wire over wire that is or might be to small already isn't going to help the cause.. to be honest it would almost turn the smaller wire into a Fusible link ..

The thought behind using 18 AWG to extend the wiring was since 20 AWG normally recommended for 1.5 amp and the new transformer would be 1.875 amp thought it would better to use 18 AWG. But I get your point. How much risk an i running here? Would it better to stay with 20 AWG to extend the wiring from the left to the right side of the door?

Thank you.

[Revo2Maxx]

The problem is going to be Distance of the transformer to the camera..

So I am going to pull a number and I am going to pull some other numbers...

30feet of 20awg at 500ma as the normal most the camera will draw under a constant load is more then big enough and the voltage drop over distance is under about 2% even at the Max current that the 30va transformer at 16vac would be as you said 1.875 or about because to be fair a 16vac is not going to be running at 16vac it would be about 17.4 to 18vac.. (Higher voltage better value anyway) However as I was saying even at 1.875amps the voltage drop over 30 foot of 20awg wire is still under the 10% voltage drop but out side my 3% I personally like to stay under.. So Yes I am someone that don't like to hear that people are using 20awg or even smaller as I have seen others that have used Cat5 cables at 24awg and that isn't good at all..

So as I said before we need to keep in mind a set of wires that normally would be Open Circuit until the button is pressed is now going to be powering the doorbell constant day and night and seeing it is also a Camera and most people are not running loads of cameras on the front of the house they are only using 1 the doorbell camera it is important that the camera stay connected at all times.. Better wire better ability to carry current...

IF you have the ability I would honestly pull new wire to the location and try and omit running in areas that have high traffic and an ability to get damaged by some future upgrade to the home.. IF not able to because of the cost of wire and or distance to your devices to make it cost prohibited then personally stay with the 20awg.. (Reason, You sell home, new owner seeing 18awg in your camera location they might without even looking at the other end expect that the whole run is 18awg and maybe install something that would burn up the other wire in short order or worse yet that wire become very hot and turn the wood it is stapled to into a fire mess..

[amforumaccount]

to be fair a 16vac is not going to be running at 16vac it would be about 17.4 to 18vac..

Yeah even the current 16v 10va one runs at 17.4v which was puzzling to me before I researched it but that does bring it down to 1.67 amps which is bit closer to the 1.5 amps number.

IF not able to because of the cost of wire and or distance to your devices to make it cost prohibited then personally stay with the 20awg..

My Black Friday purchase is going to 20 awg doorbell wiring today am soon as Home Depot opens up and then loosening up the screen door liner screws again and replacing the left to right wiring extension. Those screws are a bit stripped so going to be a pain … might as well replace all of them with torx screws while I am at it.

Any recommendation on this one if the doorbell chime humming and/or dings come back after replacing the old transformer with the new 16v 30va transformer?

Is there a formula or method to calculate the wattage of the required resistor should there again be humming or dings from the doorbell every few minutes?

Thanks for your help.

[amforumaccount]

As soon as I switched from 18 AWG to 20 AWG for the extension wiring, the doorbell chime humming and ghost dings are back again.

This is frustrating. Completely at a loss now.

[Revo2Maxx]

Well one of the things by adding the larger wire that you had in there it was in a since causing that wire to be kind of a Resistor sadly just not enough...

It could be that a 10 watt or even a 25 watt 10 ohm resistor would work for your needs.. I am not sure why your system is causing this issue..

Are you still using or trying to use the 10va transformer?

Main problem is most Mech doorbells that are 16vac 10va have very little requirement for power to make them work.. Even though that is little over 600ma and to be honest in testing I can tell you that it will cause more then that in most cases if tested with Amp meter and volt meter it might surprise some people just how much current can flow over these transformers.. Some times in my testing I have wondered if the Transformers were miss labeled or maybe they are labeled as they were because of the testing that goes into them it might have to do xyz for so long at constant current and if it fails that test they just slap a lower rating on them and sale the bad batch as something it isn't...

I know that there is other camera doorbells out there that if they are used as stand alone require a 25 or 50 watt Resistor I think it is 50 watts and 25ohms it has been long time since I worked with one of them..

I don't know it is hard to say without seeing what it going on..

[amforumaccount]

Right figured the thicker wire had been acting as a resistor.

Yeah my electrician is still on his Thanksgiving vacation so still on 10va transformer till at least late next week.

But figured out what’s going on … I think. The doorbell extension wiring from left to right I was tucking in under the screen door liner which is vinyl clad aluminum. That was causing the issue. Still researching why but through eliminating all other options that’s the only reason left why it’s happening.

Untucking the wiring and running it along wooden door frame itself caused the humming and ghost dings to stop.

Now need a solution to cover the wiring run along the door frame!

Thanks.

[Revo2Maxx]

hummm interesting.. wonder if maybe part of the wire was pinched and was causing a slight arc that was causing the hum and dings.. Now I am going to have to go play.. Have a extra aluminum Door Sill and now want to go find out what might be causing this.. I have plenty of testing equipment and different type of wires..

So your system was setup with 20awg Bell wire? This is copper solid core wire? or was it some other type 20awg multi strand wire? Just want to test with things of like kind so I have better understanding of things as it was..

I guess next question is was the wire twisted or just 2 single wires running under the aluminum?

Again to be honest, I am guessing the wire is from basement or crawlspace under the house? I would just re route the wire to the new location from over head or under the floor what ever way it is run to start with.. Anything that you do that could cover the wire will have an issue in future dealings with the area hidden.. Like you could take your wooden door trim off and run wire inside the rough opening of the door but may be damaged in future by not being something that is normally ran in such place.. A nail or screw to hang lights or something might damage if you get my meaning... Another thing and something I have done is make a Wire track in molding but again this is something that wire isn't normally hidden in and mine I clearly mark for such install and normally is in places that is to Cold at time of install and Temporary until the weather changes.. Then new install is complete and my labels are removed from temp route..

[amforumaccount]

i have now found 2 scenarios where i can consistently reproduce the hum and dings:
1. When using 18 AWG wire cover the old doorbell hole with a 1/16” metal outlet cover plate and have the wire transition from the under the cover plate to under the liner where it runs from left to right.
2. When using 20 AWG wire running the wire under the same liner left to right without the metal cover plate. I imagine it would only get worse if I had also put in the metal outlet cover plate on the doorbell hole.

Both of the above will produce hum and dings on a ding dong chime while using a 16V 10VA transformer. In wall existing wiring is all 20 AWG. All wiring existing and new is solid core copper bell wire.

Very loosely twisted for both sizes used in extension wiring.

I am thinking of getting 1x3 inch boards, getting someone to put a .3 inch channel in the center and covering the door frame with that all the around to hide the wire in the center then paint it the same color as door frame. I won’t glue or nail it in, just put in a few screws to hold it in place. The camera will move on to this board to the right side one so it’s apparent there is probably wiring running behind it. Worst case if damaged is easy enough to patch low voltage wiring.

Now need to find someone who has a router or something.