AD410 - Digital Chime fix

[sydneysider]

Hi guys,

I recently purchased an AD410 having moved from a traditional doorbell/ intercom with digital chime. The previous unit was an all in one - outdoor intercom unit and indoor phone and chime unit. I have successfully connected the AD410 and this works correctly with the chime kit.

I would like however to continue to use the existing digital chime. I noticed the amcrest shorts the two terminals on door press, however my old unit changed the voltage to 12vdc (from 24vdc) which would in turn activate the chime. I was thinking of installing a relay between the AD410 and chime such that when the AD410 terminals are shorted (0v), the relay outputs 12v to the chime, which hopefully would power it on.

Does anyone know if this will work?

Thanks

[Revo2Maxx]

Hello and Welcome to the Forum

Can I get the Model Number of your Intercom system? I need more info

[sydneysider]

Thanks Revo2Maxx.

The intercom is from the BTicino Linea 2000 range. I think the model number is 363811 (https://catalogue.bticino.com/BTI-363811-EN). The item looks identical to what I have and the wiring diagrams I've found consistent with mine, with the exception of the voltages (I can provide these, under various states (e.g. doorbell press, etc.) if this would be useful).

Thanks!

[Revo2Maxx]

So I don't know that device and I don't know what is the cause of 24 to 12v shift from the system. I am going to guess that maybe it is using a relay and a true circuit for the true voltage.

So I had something all wrote out and I have removed after i thought about looking at your link in your reply so all the Info I had was off..

So after looking at your Picture above it shows for the Remote device it is 12vac 1.2amp max and then phone system in the house says it can work up to 24v max AC or DC and not sure why DC was choose over AC for power supply. However if your system is setup like the first page second diagram then maybe the Voltage at the button outside is showing a DC voltage after the phone part has converted it to DC as most devices are setup for a AC voltage in and once inside the device it goes into a Circuit with a Bridge Rectifier and many other components to make the running voltages DC..

So would be nice to get some clear idea of Input for your device, AC or DC (This depending on your country maybe as far back as your main power box) as some systems have a breaker system with an DC output already converted in the box (Not how it normally works in USA) Like on Page 3 that is showing a Din system breaker with 230ac in and 12vac out..

IT might be that by your local code the system had to run in DC and all this is Moot, however there are so many things that it could be. Easier to help from Facts as I don't want to say something that would make something not work..

Some info like Voltages at T-6 (Stand By and after Button is pushed), Voltages at 1-2, and 3-4 all voltages would need to be Standby and after button is pressed. Also would like to know if there is Voltage at 7-8 at the remote location and 3-4 at that location as well both Standby and after button is pressed. Is 1 and 2 using the same power supply as 7-8 or is 7-8 on its own PSU?

[sydneysider]

Thanks Revo2Maxx.

I probably should have made the following clear:

• I only have an indoor unit and outdoor unit. There is an optional additional chime (connected to [T and 6]) and additional transformer (connected to [7 and 8]) in the wiring diagram that I do not have. These terminals are open and not wired to anything.

• The chime is actually in the handset of the indoor unit

• I do not have access to the transformer (I don't know exactly where it is and can't comfortably tug on the cable to reach it without risking breaking something).

The only connections with wiring is the [1 and 2] and [3 and 4] terminals on the indoor unit and the [4 and 3] terminals on the outdoor unit.

These are my voltage readings - I've tried to lay it out logically. I think I've got everything correct here, but if there is anything you wanted me to double check I am happy to do so.


Part A: Values when the old intercom is connected:

In a 'normal' state (no button press and indoor unit handset down)

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: 24vdc

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

On button press:

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: 12vdc

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

• The chime in the indoor unit handset will sound

When handset lifted (i.e. for a household member to speak to the visitor).

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: -10vdc

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

• Note the button press will do nothing and will not activate the chime whilst the handset is lifted.

Part B: Values when the AD410 is connected, with no chime kit connected

In a 'normal' state (no button press and indoor unit handset down)

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: 24vdc

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

• Note: The chime on the indoor unit will periodically go off (maybe once every 20-30 seconds) for a second or so

• Note: When I short the terminals on the AD410, the indoor chime can be heard for the entire duration it is shorted. Therefore I don't think the chime requires 12vdc to activate it (as I had previously thought). Perhaps just any 'low' dc voltage?

On AD410 button press, with digital chime set up in settings:

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: 2vdc dropping eventually to 0v)

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

• There is no chime sound heard on the indoor unit

When handset lifted (i.e. for a household member to speak to the visitor - although not electrically possible with the AD410 connected).

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: -10vdc

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

• Note: I *think* this would turn-off the AD410 due to the voltage supplied.

Part C: Values when the AD410 is connected, with the chime kit connected between terminals [1 and 4]

In a 'normal' state (no button press and indoor unit handset down)

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: 16vac

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

• There is no chime sound heard on the indoor unit

On AD410 button press, with digital chime set up in settings:

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: 0v (ac?)

for the duration of the chime setting

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

• There is no chime sound heard on the indoor unit

When handset lifted (i.e. for a household member to speak to the visitor - although not electrically possible with the AD410 connected).

• Voltage at terminals [3 and 4]: 16vac

• Voltage at terminals [1 and 2]: 18vac

• There is no chime sound heard on the indoor unit

• Note: When the handset is lifted I can hear a soft buzzing sound in the handset for the duration of the chime set up in the AD410, but it is not the chime

• Note: When the handset is down there is no buzzing or chime sound in the handset at all. This is a little counter-intuitive as you would expect the chime/buzzing to activate whilst the handset is down, not whilst it is up.

[Revo2Maxx]

Ok sorry in that case that kind of a different type of story. I thought you were talking about the Chime unit for the device not the ringer on the phone.

The issue is as you noticed the button push and phone ring happens on what would make little since from the stand point of a normal lets say Multi Meter testing..

If you had an Oscilloscope then things could become more clear to what is going on. My guess is that there is some circuit within the device that is looking for different types of things to make things work. Like some of these might have as many as 5 or more units and between the button and the main units they will all have different traits on button push so the hand set knows what one it was.

This could be something seen on the Scope

Now this don't mean that it can't be done, Just means there is more info that would be needed to get the info on what is triggering the ring.


Then in the Reply above there are some numbers that don't compute with me. Most of it 3 and 4 are an DC voltage yet in the last couple numbers you have them listed as AC

Either way, To be honest there is so many things here and the AD410 is little flaky when it comes to over and under voltage issues. Most times it was just killing the Chime Kit not a big loss however with the release of the Ad410 it now takes out the power board in the camera rather then killing the Chime kit and only way the camera would work from then on is over USB so be careful using camera with Voltage values like 2v to 0.. Now on AC that can be destruction to electronics, Like lets say with an 24vac 50va transformer that is 2.08amps however on that same transformer if it drops to 2.4v then the current is 20.8amp. DC on the other hand normally has some type of protection to over or under voltage and or also an current regulation so these issues don't happen..

So hope you were talking about shorting out the wires that goes to the camera and not shorting out the 2 pins while connected. While the camera does short them out when button is pressed that is VIA a mini Relay within the camera body.

[sydneysider]

Thanks Revo2Maxx.

You've got me a little worried now with low voltages on button press when configuring the AD410 with a digital chime.

Would you suggest I change this to a mechanical chime (not sure what this does, but doesn't seem to change the voltage at the terminals on the AD410), or perhaps even do a reset of the AD410 and not set up a chime (given I cannot select no chime after adding a digital or mechanical chime).

Unfortunately I don't have access to an oscilloscope.. so may need to look for alternative options. Perhaps a compatible wireless chime.

Thanks!

[Revo2Maxx]

Personally I am only trying to look out for you and your hardware and the headache of a Replacement if it went bad.. I would really look into maybe getting the Amcrest Wireless Chime, Yes then a Reset of the camera would be needed to turn off the Chime setup you have now.

Just don't want all the work that you have gone though and trying to pull a trick out of a hat that might not be there and have some accident cause your camera to brick.

[sydneysider]

No problems - I understand. The last thing I want to do is break the doorbell too.

I've tried looking for the amcrest wireless chime but it seems like it's not available for sale anymore (discontinued product?). I think worse case scenario I might have a go at setting up home assistant and playing a chime through a speaker.

[Revo2Maxx]

Don't know if it is Discontinued? but can be found here https://amcrest.com/smarthome-wireless- ... chime.html and is out of stock right now. I would guess that they will get more back in stock.