Why does everyone keep changing the iframes lol, Dahua/Amcrest wants to be 2 should really keep 2. 30fps 60iframes... Not heard of change to 720, I mean chrome reverts so best to use ie tab in Edge, even that don't work all the time for all my cameras.
Right now in the town in our state Ash, up north. Should be home around 4pm if I am lucky lol
IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
Common practice is one I-frame (key frame) per second on basic HD main streams. Any number of acceptable factors may exist to benefit from either a longer or shorter interval..., not the least of which are the resolution and bit rate realtive to both storage and image activity considerations. Lots of folks like 15fps with a 1 second I-frame interval. Some VMS platforms perform better with a bit of I-frame tweaking as well. I can think of one in particular. LOL
And 60 I-frames across 30fps would be an I-frame every 60th of a second which is impossible! LOL But I know what you meant.
What drives me nuts are specs like that. Seems like every manufacturer wants to call an I-frame something it isn't and just confuse the user by mixing frame numbers with interval times. A 30fps stream with an I-frame interval of 1 would be an I-frame every 30 frames (every 1 second).
Dahua wants to define an I-Frame interval setting by realtive frames per second. 30fps with an I-frame setting also at 30 is an I-frame interval of 1 second for them.
As for the resolution change from 1080 to 720, that's the firmware changing the camera configuration on its own. Each resolution displays as it should in Chrome or BI -- until the camera is rebooted and default settings are back. I'll mess with it later to see if I can figure it out. I can't imagine being the only one who's experienced this.
And 60 I-frames across 30fps would be an I-frame every 60th of a second which is impossible! LOL But I know what you meant.
What drives me nuts are specs like that. Seems like every manufacturer wants to call an I-frame something it isn't and just confuse the user by mixing frame numbers with interval times. A 30fps stream with an I-frame interval of 1 would be an I-frame every 30 frames (every 1 second).
Dahua wants to define an I-Frame interval setting by realtive frames per second. 30fps with an I-frame setting also at 30 is an I-frame interval of 1 second for them.
As for the resolution change from 1080 to 720, that's the firmware changing the camera configuration on its own. Each resolution displays as it should in Chrome or BI -- until the camera is rebooted and default settings are back. I'll mess with it later to see if I can figure it out. I can't imagine being the only one who's experienced this.
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
Don't know it is kind of odd that it is really the first time I have heard of the issue. Maybe try keeping the 30fps and 60 iFrames. AKA 2x so if you were to look at most of my cameras with 22fps, and 2x it will be 44 frame interval more info below for anyone following..
The i-frame (intra-frame) is a full reference frame in video compression that contains a complete picture of the scene. In IP camera video streaming, i-frames are combined with p-frames (predictive frames), which only store the differences from one frame to the next. This combination keeps data size manageable and allows efficient streaming by reducing redundant information across frames.
Why an I-Frame Interval of 2 is Typically Better than 1
Balanced Bandwidth and Storage Use: With an interval of 2, a new full frame (i-frame) is sent every other frame, which limits the data load. Lowering the interval to 1 means sending a full frame with every frame, doubling the bandwidth and storage needed, which can lead to network congestion or higher storage costs.
Improved Processing Efficiency: IP cameras need to compress and process each frame in real time. With fewer full frames to process, the camera can maintain stable performance, even in higher-resolution or multiple-camera setups. Setting it to 1 forces the camera to work harder, increasing the chance of lag or stuttering.
Network Stability: Streaming full i-frames every frame can overload the network, especially in large surveillance setups. Keeping the interval at 2 reduces the likelihood of network bottlenecks, helping video streams remain smooth.
Consistent Video Quality: More frequent i-frames (interval of 1) can strain the camera’s processing ability, potentially lowering the quality of both i- and p-frames. An interval of 2 allows the camera to allocate resources effectively, preserving consistent video quality across frames.
Compatibility with Recorders and Software: Many NVRs and VMSs (Video Management Systems) are optimized for an i-frame interval of 2, as it is a common standard. Changing it to 1 may cause compatibility issues, resulting in playback errors or increased storage usage on the recorder.
Longer Equipment Lifespan: Reducing i-frame processing frequency reduces wear on internal camera components, which can contribute to a longer overall lifespan, particularly important in 24/7 surveillance environments.
Overall, manufacturers generally set the interval to 2 to provide a balanced, reliable setup, so it's usually best to stick with the default for optimal performance and stability. Unless they are Hikvision then they default to 1, But Amcrest isn't a Hikvision product and Dahua defaults for best setup to two...
MORE INFO
Yes, the frame interval refers to the number of frames between i-frames in a video stream. Here's how it relates to frames per second (FPS) and the
i-frame interval:
Frames per Second (FPS): The number of video frames displayed or recorded per second. For example, if you're using 30 FPS, the camera generates 30 frames each second.
Frame Interval and i-Frames:
An i-frame interval of 2 means that an i-frame (a full reference frame) is sent every 2 seconds of video.
For 30 FPS, this translates to 60 frames (30 FPS × 2 seconds) between i-frames.
So, with an i-frame interval of 2, the camera sends one i-frame followed by 59 p-frames (predictive frames) within the span of 60 frames.
Summary
If your camera is set to 30 FPS and the i-frame interval is 2, it means the camera transmits:
One i-frame every 60 frames.
The other 59 frames in between are p-frames, which reference the preceding i-frame to save bandwidth and storage.
This interval ensures efficient video compression while maintaining good video quality and stream stability.
Some believe that the iframes will keep down Motion blur and things like that. I know where this Mis-Understood info comes from and hate to say it is incorrect.
To be clear,
A 2x i-frame interval is not only better for network efficiency but also helps maintain smoother video quality. Motion blur, if present, is usually a result of camera settings like shutter speed or insufficient lighting, not the i-frame interval. Adjusting shutter speed or frame rate is a better solution for reducing motion blur than forcing an i-frame interval of 1.
The i-frame (intra-frame) is a full reference frame in video compression that contains a complete picture of the scene. In IP camera video streaming, i-frames are combined with p-frames (predictive frames), which only store the differences from one frame to the next. This combination keeps data size manageable and allows efficient streaming by reducing redundant information across frames.
Why an I-Frame Interval of 2 is Typically Better than 1
Balanced Bandwidth and Storage Use: With an interval of 2, a new full frame (i-frame) is sent every other frame, which limits the data load. Lowering the interval to 1 means sending a full frame with every frame, doubling the bandwidth and storage needed, which can lead to network congestion or higher storage costs.
Improved Processing Efficiency: IP cameras need to compress and process each frame in real time. With fewer full frames to process, the camera can maintain stable performance, even in higher-resolution or multiple-camera setups. Setting it to 1 forces the camera to work harder, increasing the chance of lag or stuttering.
Network Stability: Streaming full i-frames every frame can overload the network, especially in large surveillance setups. Keeping the interval at 2 reduces the likelihood of network bottlenecks, helping video streams remain smooth.
Consistent Video Quality: More frequent i-frames (interval of 1) can strain the camera’s processing ability, potentially lowering the quality of both i- and p-frames. An interval of 2 allows the camera to allocate resources effectively, preserving consistent video quality across frames.
Compatibility with Recorders and Software: Many NVRs and VMSs (Video Management Systems) are optimized for an i-frame interval of 2, as it is a common standard. Changing it to 1 may cause compatibility issues, resulting in playback errors or increased storage usage on the recorder.
Longer Equipment Lifespan: Reducing i-frame processing frequency reduces wear on internal camera components, which can contribute to a longer overall lifespan, particularly important in 24/7 surveillance environments.
Overall, manufacturers generally set the interval to 2 to provide a balanced, reliable setup, so it's usually best to stick with the default for optimal performance and stability. Unless they are Hikvision then they default to 1, But Amcrest isn't a Hikvision product and Dahua defaults for best setup to two...
MORE INFO
Yes, the frame interval refers to the number of frames between i-frames in a video stream. Here's how it relates to frames per second (FPS) and the
i-frame interval:
Frames per Second (FPS): The number of video frames displayed or recorded per second. For example, if you're using 30 FPS, the camera generates 30 frames each second.
Frame Interval and i-Frames:
An i-frame interval of 2 means that an i-frame (a full reference frame) is sent every 2 seconds of video.
For 30 FPS, this translates to 60 frames (30 FPS × 2 seconds) between i-frames.
So, with an i-frame interval of 2, the camera sends one i-frame followed by 59 p-frames (predictive frames) within the span of 60 frames.
Summary
If your camera is set to 30 FPS and the i-frame interval is 2, it means the camera transmits:
One i-frame every 60 frames.
The other 59 frames in between are p-frames, which reference the preceding i-frame to save bandwidth and storage.
This interval ensures efficient video compression while maintaining good video quality and stream stability.
Some believe that the iframes will keep down Motion blur and things like that. I know where this Mis-Understood info comes from and hate to say it is incorrect.
To be clear,
A 2x i-frame interval is not only better for network efficiency but also helps maintain smoother video quality. Motion blur, if present, is usually a result of camera settings like shutter speed or insufficient lighting, not the i-frame interval. Adjusting shutter speed or frame rate is a better solution for reducing motion blur than forcing an i-frame interval of 1.
Be Safe.
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
An absolutely perfect illustration of exactly what I was referring to! LOL
And since I've completely derailed my own thread...
For anyone interested in a better understanding of the actual technology involved and its various applications and techniques, below is probably one of the better overviews out there.
It weeds through the arbitrary and 'vendor specific' terminology frequently associated with the same fundamental functionality of the technology. It simply focuses on how and why it works as it does and how different applications of the technology are completley appropriate for different situations and conditions. (That's why there are typically multiple settings available in all professional IP RTSP firmware.)
https://blog.video.ibm.com/streaming-vi ... mpression/
And since I've completely derailed my own thread...
For anyone interested in a better understanding of the actual technology involved and its various applications and techniques, below is probably one of the better overviews out there.
It weeds through the arbitrary and 'vendor specific' terminology frequently associated with the same fundamental functionality of the technology. It simply focuses on how and why it works as it does and how different applications of the technology are completley appropriate for different situations and conditions. (That's why there are typically multiple settings available in all professional IP RTSP firmware.)
https://blog.video.ibm.com/streaming-vi ... mpression/
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
Thank you for the info, sorry didn't mean to change scope of your thread, For the majority of scenarios, an i-frame interval of 2 is effective and efficient. The visual quality gain with an interval of 1 is often minor, while the benefits of lower heat, reduced bandwidth, and improved long-term reliability make i-frame 2 a solid choice for me.
I haven't changed yet but wondering if 720 format wasn't caused by changing to 1. I have a few on 2019 fw will try and see what happens. Would be interesting.
I haven't changed yet but wondering if 720 format wasn't caused by changing to 1. I have a few on 2019 fw will try and see what happens. Would be interesting.
Be Safe.
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
No worries. I pretty much opened that door myself.
Different keyframe intervals, bitrates, resolutions, codecs, lenses, firmware and users are all dynamic variables in this game. That's why the flexibility to configure a device for the needs or desired results of a certain task or application exist in the first place.
Would you use a 60fps 4K camera at 12,000bps to watch a static parking lot just to log license plates? Of course not. Would you use a 10fps 720p camera to stream a live hockey game at 256 bps? Hell no. The keyframe setting wouldn't even matter for either case because everything else was so wrong for the tasks handed to each camera.
What works out of the box for most conditions can usually work better once tuned to the specific use case involved. Some adjustments are a simple matter of taste or habit, others are specific to given requirements.
Enuff of that.
This 840 will not retain a 30fps setting to save its ass with any of the settings combinations I've thrown at it. It will run beautifully at 30fps/4096bps all day long but revert to 720 after a reboot every time.
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
Wow can I see a video of this, I have tested 4 with 2019 fw and only found 1 issue while connected to my NVR with 2020 fw though. That after making change to cameras 30iframe if I change setting in NVR the camera reverts to 60 lol. Made a video of it not posted it yet but find it strange. Will need to look at 2019 units again because didn't have issue after reboot didn't know combo until I was messing with 2020 unit again. But after reboot no issue on either and 2020 only after making a change to something else. Will test it when I get home. I have a feeling it will do fo 19 as well. 720p crazy that yours has that issue not even a native setting in that camera.
Be Safe.
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
It actually appears to be the default setting in the camera I have. Fresh power up is 1280x720 / 25fps / CBR / 1024Kb/s / Frame Interval 50
I'll need to sharpen my OBS skills to compile a screen capture covering the entire sequence that leads to the actual issue in real time. Not sure I'm up for that tonight.
Any chance the firmware itself may be auto-compensating for the lens as it boots or is reset? I can obviously force the change once it's up and running. It just doesn't like it from a fresh start. The reason I ask is because when I initially put it back together after cleaning and had the ribbon cable connector issue, it displayed some pretty strange settings and options that were anything but standard selections -- like defaulting to 4fps with a bit rate of like 20 or something. It recognized things weren't right then, maybe something similar now with the struggling lens?
I'll need to sharpen my OBS skills to compile a screen capture covering the entire sequence that leads to the actual issue in real time. Not sure I'm up for that tonight.
Any chance the firmware itself may be auto-compensating for the lens as it boots or is reset? I can obviously force the change once it's up and running. It just doesn't like it from a fresh start. The reason I ask is because when I initially put it back together after cleaning and had the ribbon cable connector issue, it displayed some pretty strange settings and options that were anything but standard selections -- like defaulting to 4fps with a bit rate of like 20 or something. It recognized things weren't right then, maybe something similar now with the struggling lens?
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
It gets weirder...
A reset defaults and successfully saves to 1080. A reboot reverts to 720 every time.
A reset defaults and successfully saves to 1080. A reboot reverts to 720 every time.
- 841 Reset Default.jpg (34.29 KiB) Viewed 4471 times
- 841 Main.jpg (34.2 KiB) Viewed 4471 times
Re: IP2M-841-B Disassembly for Plastics Restoration
Well I am not sure, It is something new to be honest. I remember when the first 2019 FW was released and with all the issues that others had I don't remember anyone with the Format change of the camera it self..
With your camera and adding the ribbon back it might have shorted out something in the camera boot section that detects what the camera is after a reboot. I mean I am sure the camera runs a bootloader after power up or reboot and has some things in the system to check for different things along the way and if something fails to load as normal to then load as something else to keep the system able to keep going without the program hang..
Something to try. Once the camera is running with the correct settings you want them to run at. I would update the camera again with the Firmware you are running and see if that cures it. Maybe just needs a reflash of the FW..
With your camera and adding the ribbon back it might have shorted out something in the camera boot section that detects what the camera is after a reboot. I mean I am sure the camera runs a bootloader after power up or reboot and has some things in the system to check for different things along the way and if something fails to load as normal to then load as something else to keep the system able to keep going without the program hang..
Something to try. Once the camera is running with the correct settings you want them to run at. I would update the camera again with the Firmware you are running and see if that cures it. Maybe just needs a reflash of the FW..
Be Safe.